Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: People tuning in to call the outdoors should know the leaves moving.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: You'll see the branches moving. It doesn't mean you're going to see.
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Your playbook, your tricks and tips laid out, and share it with everybody. Hello and welcome to Call of the Outdoors, the podcast of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Got an exciting guest today. We have our new executive director, Steve Smith, coming in to share a whole bunch of things that are going on here at the agency and maybe give us a couple hunting tips along the way. But you know, it's important that as hunters and outdoors men and women, that we all work together. And here at the game commission, you know, our lines are always open. You can always check us out on the web at PGC dot Pa dot gov, all of our social media channels. GM comments we want to hear from you. You know, if, if we can help, we, if you have a question, even if you have a complaint, or if you have something positive to say, it's important that we all work together for the future. You know, we have a really neat campaign going this fall, too. It's the take someone hunting photo contest, and we'd love for you to submit any of your photos through our social media channel on our website. If you get to share the outdoors with someone, especially if you're teaching someone new and instilling that passion, that Pennsylvania hunting passion, into the next generation of hunters and conservationists. But we're going to jump right in. We're going to get with Steve, and we're going to talk about fall hunting season that's just around the corner.
For Pennsylvania hunters and conservationists, our roots run deep. The episodes we bring to you on the Pennsylvania Game Commission's podcast, Call of the Outdoors, will take a deep dive into exposing the incredible work being done by agency staff and partners, including statewide habitat projects, the science behind wildlife management, and what drives agency decisions. The Pennsylvania Game Commission's mission is twofold, to manage and protect wildlife and their habitats for not only current, but future generations, and to promote hunting and trapping in the Keystone state.
Thank you for taking some time this morning and joining us on call the outdoors. I can't believe it's been six months since we were together in the studio. It's crazy how fast time's flying.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's getting close to that point. And right there with you, it's been a whirlwind. It's been a blur. So excited to come back, and we're getting ready for the fall. So wanted to talk some fall seasons with you. Now. I was here. We were talking spring gobbler that's come and gone. Now it's time for the fall, you.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Know, the summer months. You know, it's crazy when you think about the game commission and what happens. And, you know, every, every week, every month that goes by, things are just coming quicker and quicker and quicker. And, you know, as we, as we work towards our mission and, you know, so many folks don't know every angle out there. And that's why I want to talk about a lot of things today. Cause you've been busy downtown and I think we should, you know, just, you know, highlight some of the things that are happening in that world, in the legislative world and things that our sportsmen and sports women should know about.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Looking forward to get into it. Everything that we've been doing has been for the betterment of wildlife and our hunters, sportsmen and women, so excited to talk about it and let them know what's been going on. As you well know, there is no off season at the game commission. In fact, we're busy all year round and leading up to these hunting seasons. So it's funny how many people say to me, I guess it's, you know, when it's summer, I guess this is your slow time. There is no slow time. So we've been busy and excited to talk about it.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's the lead up. I mean, the older you get, the faster time goes. I can't believe, like, we're sitting here. Archer seasons, I mean, statewide archer season has already, is starting this weekend. Some of the parts of the state have already come in. You know, we've, we've had early goose season, we have dove season, we had early squirrel season, which is one of your favorites.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: It is, absolutely.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: And I know that, that you were a big proponent in making that happen years ago as well.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Oh, definitely. I, I can't get enough squirrel hunting. So, um, yeah, that's something I've, I've had some conversations with our biologists about. Do we have some flexibility? Flexibility there used to be when I was a kid, sure. You remember, you know, we didn't start till mid October. Uh, so I was excited to see that they were supportive of, and our board certainly was as well, of starting that season earlier, just creating more opportunities for our hunters.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: It's been a success too. I mean, I, from what I can tell, you know, the last three or four years that it's, it's been here, I think, and, you know, people taking advantage of it. And just because it comes in earlier doesn't mean, it's easy.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: I was just going to say it's, it's not easy. And you're right on the first part. It's been gaining popularity more and more hunters we're seeing out there, um, you know, in that September timeframe, as long as it's not too hot, as long as the temperatures are decent, we're seeing more hunters. And it's not easy. I think it's, it's harder.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Um, I think the late season is, is an early, is an easier time. Uh, because right now, the leaf cover, um, we always say when we're done hunting squirrels in that early season that our necks need a break. Because you've been looking up into that tree, staring up there, you know, for a half hour sometimes just waiting to get a shot. You'll see the leaves moving, you'll see the branches moving. It doesn't mean you're going to see the squirrel, and it certainly doesn't mean you're going to be able to get a shot. So we've, we've spent, you know, half hour, an hour staring up into a tree just to finally get a shot at a squirrel. So it's, it's not easy by any stretch.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Now, when you, when you do shoot a squirrel, do you clean it right away?
[00:05:09] Speaker B: I do. Especially in those late seasons or in the early season. Sorry. Yeah, you know, the temperature is a factor. You're going to want to take care of it right away, so.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: And, yeah, I heard you can clean one a minute. Is that right?
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Um, it's, it's, I've had a lot of practice. Uh, in fact, it's funny, I joke with my boys. There's been times where they've shot a squirrel, gone, picked it up and then dropped it at my feet and moved over to go hunt again. And I'm sitting there just processing them. That's how they look at me is my role is to process the squirrels and clean them real quickly. So, yeah, I've, I've had some practice.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: Well, guys, we got to get that on video because, like, that's, that's something that can help a lot of folks, especially new hunters, because squirrel's tough. I mean, unless you, and, like, everybody has their own technique, you know, stand on the tail, across the back, whatever it is. And we need to catch that sometime if we can.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Well, it's funny you bring that up. Cause I was telling a group a couple days ago, for me, game news was how I learned how to hunt a lot of, you know, animals, especially squirrels and my dad used to say, I'll take your squirrel hunting, but I'm not cleaning them.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: It's.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: It's on you. So I remember one issue of game news ran how to skin a squirrel. So I literally ripped it out, put it in my game vest that year, and every time I shot a squirrel, I'd, you know, pull it out, open it up, and go through the steps that they had on it until by the end of, you know, October, that thing was just caked with blood from, you know, my hands getting messy. But that's, you know, it's something that doesn't come naturally. You got to learn how to do it right. But once you get it down, you can get pretty good at it.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: And it's just like hunting, you know, when you look at the r three movement in our agency across the country, you know, you can't go hunting one time and know it all. I mean, hunting is a learned. We're still learning today.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: And probably till the day they put us under dirt.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Without question.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: You're going to learn something new every day.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: You know, that's what turkeys for me, like spring gobbler hunting. Just when you think you got it figured out, they make a fool out of you and it, and it makes you so mad that, like, you want.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: To go again more times than not. Right, right. It's. I don't know what the ratio is for blown hunts versus successful hunts, at least for me, but it's, it's up there, you know, of situations where, like you said, you think you got it figured out. You think, you know, what they're going to do, and they make you look like an absolute, you know, beginner time and time again.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, you look at seasons that have already happened, you know, came in, you know, earlier this year, elk season, archery elk season. And I've saw some photos of some really nice bulls that were just incredible. And it's always exciting, you know, we're going to head up there, obviously, the, you know, for the check station opening day, and it's just incredible to watch what comes in. And, you know, that resource is pretty amazing.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: That's something that, you know, is acknowledged across the country. The caliber of animals that we have up in that part of the state is just incredible. Um, you know, they wouldn't believe it in, in some of those western states where, you know, people will go and hunt pretty hard for a bull that in Pennsylvania, you know, you probably wouldn't even think about on, especially early on in the season. So the just truly world class animals that are up there. And even if you don't get a chance to get drawn, and I certainly haven't, year after year, putting in still just to go up there and see that, you know, I think it's something that every Pennsylvania hunter would really appreciate.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: I mean, for the investment. And obviously, it all goes back into the, you know, the elk range, too. And the investment that. That you make, you look at playing the lottery. You know, I don't know about you, but, like, if I play Powerball, I can't sleep at night. Cause I've already got it spent the next morning, and. And putting in for an elk tag is the same way. Like, you, you never know if your name's gonna get drawn. And if it does, it's a hunt of a lifetime.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. There's nothing wrong with hope, right? And we can all hope that this will be the time we get drawn and put that in. And I think you're right. In the back of our mind, we know the odds are low, but it's an investment, right? That's exactly what it is.
[00:08:41] Speaker A: And that's something here. You know, a lot of times when you look at the whole picture of the agency, you know, your career, you started in the legislative side, and then, you know, bureau director at I and e and information education, and now, you know, you're. You're the executive director of this agency. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, what the agency is and does and kind of your vision, because, you know, where you've taken the agency in six months is pretty incredible. And I'm excited for the future, and I think we're all excited for the future. You know, it's getting in there. You're getting it in drive. I mean, obviously, there's some curves and you're spinning your wheels, but I think things are really starting to ramp up from the inside. And I want folks to know on the outside, you know, where we're headed as the Pennsylvania game commission.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Sure. And, you know, it's still. It doesn't even feel real yet to be executive director. It's something that I never thought would happen, never, you know, dreamt would happen. And to have this opportunity, I'm still very much aware of how awesome the responsibility is, and I keep that in mind all the time and think about it. And, you know, you talked about what my vision is and how I, the legacy I would like to create, for lack of a better term. And I think it comes down to two things. First of all, I'd like this agency to be known for responsible management. And the way I look at that is it covers three things. Responsible management with our finances, responsible management of our assets, particularly our game lands, and then responsible management of the species. And, you know, that's something that we, as agency staff have an obligation to do. And, you know, that talks about, you know, demanding the best of ourselves, holding each other accountable, raising the bar of professionalism so that we're keeping those things in mind. We want to be known for responsible management. But the second part of it is really promoting and celebrating our hunting heritage in this state. That's something that's really important to me.
It's something I'm proud of. The fact that our agency has worked so well with our hunters, and I want to continue with that. I think we need to keep that in the forefront of our mind at all times, that hunters are our partners. They help us accomplish our mission on all those levels. So I really just want to continue to celebrate that and promote that tradition and keep it going.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: Yeah, we're lucky in Pennsylvania, you know, with the, you know, I say it all the time. People get tired of it. We're. We're two in the country when it comes to licensed hunters. And when you think about hunters and conservation dollars and conservation in general, I mean, hunters are in the first line of conservation.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: And. And it is important. And when people overlook that, you know, we hear it a lot, too. Like, nobody down there at the game commission is a hunter. And it. That gets me every time that I hear it, and I'm sure it does yourself as well. And, you know, when you look at, you know, the whole staff, look at the executive staff and I upstairs and, you know, your two deputies are. I mean, they have blood squirting out of their eyes.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: I was gonna say they've hunted a time or two.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: They are some of the hardest hunters in Pennsylvania. And right there with you, when we hear that, you know, nobody hunts at the game commission or. Or anything along those lines, I just have to laugh, because if you knew how difficult it was to find an employee at the game commission in October and November, you would understand. A lot of our employees hunt like, this is what we do to our core. It's who we are, and for a lot of us, it's why we got into this field to begin with. It's that love of wildlife, the love of hunting that we couldn't see working anywhere else.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Right. So you have a pretty new staff upstairs in the executive. Do you have a favorite deputy yet?
I'm just saying that because one's sitting.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Here on the set, whichever one shows up the most in October and November will be my new favorite. So it remains to be seen.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: I got you. So, you know, legislatively, there's some stuff going on downtown that our folks, that hunters, people tuning in to call the outdoors, should know about. I mean, we're hearing a lot of buzz about Sunday hunting, and, you know, for. For a lot of us that enjoy hunting don't understand the legislative part of it. Maybe if we can talk about that for a minute and.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Sure, sure. And you're exactly right.
I'm surprised how many letters I get, and I got one just the other day that says, game commission, you need to open up more Sunday hunting. And my response is, good back is going to be what I've always said, which is, we'd love to. We just don't have the ability to do so in the law. And law, as of now, limits what our board can do with. With Sunday hunting to three days for big game. Um, and they've typically done it, uh, there at the end of archery season, beginning of bear season, beginning of deer, deer rifle season. Um, the law has to change to allow our board to manage wildlife and to potentially set seasons seven days a week. That. That currently is something that this agency has never had. So we've been working closely with the general assembly to try to get that law changed.
Our message has been, this doesn't mean it's going to be Sunday hunting, wide open for every species, seven days a week, because we do have to worry about what would the impact be for some species. We have to keep that in mind. So we would probably. Our board would probably manage it incrementally, take a few Sundays, add them on here, measure what the impact is, and then talk about adding it more. But before any of that can happen, the law has to change. Um, this past summer, there was a bill in the House that would change that law. In the House voted in favor of it. At the same time, there was a bill in the Senate that would change that law, and the Senate voted in favor of it. So now we're in a situation we've never been in Pennsylvania, where both chambers, both the House and the Senate, have approved legislation that would allow our board to regulate Sunday hunting. So now we just need them to agree on which of those two bills to move forward and potentially reach the governor's desk. And, um, I'm excited because, if nothing else, the conversation of around Sunday hunting has changed from if we'll have Sunday hunting to when. Yeah, and that's a huge step. And when I started with the agency, it was very much a question of if, um. I don't know if I would have predicted at this point we'd be having this conversation, but. But here we are, and I think that change is, is imminent. I think there's a lot of support for it. Like I said, both chambers have passed legislation. Now we just need to work out some of those details and see if we can't get a bill to the governor.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: And that's. That's a great approach. And, you know, for the folks listening, it's important that we walk before we run, you know. Cause we've never had Sunday hunting. It adds a whole new caveat to wildlife management.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: You know, there's much more free time. There'll be a lot more people in the woods to enjoy it. And it adds, you know, could add how many days to deer season, and we have to manage accordingly. So walking before we run is a great. Absolutely is a great way to look at things.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: It would add some days to deer season, and I think spring gobbler season as well, because how many times have we had bad weather on a Saturday, and then you wake up on Sunday and it's beautiful. So we'd have to keep that in mind of, you know, if Sunday hunting were implemented, what would that look like for spring galler? What kind of impact on the species? So that goes back to, we always wanted to be responsible in managing wildlife, but promoting hunting at the same time.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Just so you know, I was one of those people years ago when I, before I worked at the agency. I'd wake up Sunday and hear turkey gobble, and I'm like, I'd tweet, hey, I'm out here throwing rocks at turkeys this morning. Cause I can't hunt in my own state. Cause I thought it was a game.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: We thought it was a game.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: And a lot of folks still do. Cause we get it on social media every time we talk about it. And, you know, you explained it very well. I just hope people can understand that, like, we're behind it. We're with you on that one.
And really, that need for Pennsylvanians today.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: We'Re the biggest advocates for it right there with the NGO, the non government organization, community that are supporting it, because we see the impact it could have for our hunters. Um, so many of our hunters say that the lack of free time is the biggest issue they have in staying engaged. What better day to add where, you know, there's potentially free time than that Sunday. So if we could get that, I think it'd be huge for our hunters and go back to, again, strengthening our hunting heritage. And Sunday hunting, I think is going to be a play a huge role.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: In that, you know, any advice to folks out there that buy hunt or don't buy a hunt license when, you know, very naive to the legislative process that how they would contact a legislator or what they should do, you know, how they should use the legislators in their area. Any advice for folks like that?
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Sure.
I think that's common within our hunting community is you see that kind of disdain for politics, so to say, so to speak. And I think that what people find is when they do try to get engaged, is that their local representatives or local senators really appreciate that feedback. They welcome that engagement. They want to hear from their constituents. So I encourage everybody to become more active and it's as easy as a Google search for how can I find my local representative. And there's plenty of good websites. The state has a good resource to provide that, that knowledge for our constituents. And we really encourage them reach out, be engaged, because they want to hear from hunters on issues. And, you know, there's no bigger issue right now than Sunday hunting. So now would be a great time to get engaged.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: You know, this past year, we kind of full court pressed on a lot of shooting range activities, grand openings of our new archery ranges, new shooting ranges across the state. And we've got to spend a lot of time with those legislators that are very active and bring their own bows and firearms. And it was pretty cool to see that. You know, let's talk about shooting sports and, and, you know, we've made a really concentrated effort in the past, probably ten years to celebrate the shooters in Pennsylvania, which shooting, hunting, archery, you know, all those, all those manufacturers that pay that excise tax, that Pittman Robertson excise tax to support conservation here in Pennsylvania. We're, we're giving back to, especially the recreational shooting side of things.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Absolutely. And you're right. We've been doing a lot of that this summer. I really encourage everybody to go onto our website and look for a new shooting range in your area. Chances are that there's one that, you know, you might not be aware of nearby.
I joke, when I was in grad school, I was still archery hunting, but I didn't have a place. I lived in town, didn't have a place to practice. So I would literally put my target in my car, drive to a game lands and shoot in the parking lot there at that game lands. Well, now, at that very game lands, at that parking lot where I used to shoot is a state of the art archery range. And you can go from 20 yards out to 40. You can use field tips, broadheads, everything in between. It's, it's perfect. And it's so much nicer than when, when I was there, you know, 20 years ago, shooting and pacing off the distance and estimating and shooting into my little block target that was pretty beat up. So it's an investment we've made for our hunters, for our shooters. If you're going to get engaged in those activities, you need a place to do them, right? And we have the game lands. And this goes back to responsible management of our game lands. We have the game lands. Let's create opportunities. We have the resources right now, so let's invest back into those sports. And there's no better way to do it than to create those opportunities or those places for people to come and recreate.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah, and you said resources. Let's just talk about that a little bit, because I think, you know, there's a, there's a misconception out there, you know, about this giant pot of money that the game commission has. And, like, you know, all of a sudden, and, you know, let's talk about how we got there and where we're going with it, because we kind of hit the lottery is, I mean, in all kind of sense. And in 18 months, all of a sudden, we plussed up our reserve. If you, if you want to. Just high level stuff if you want to.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: Sure. So we have about 1.53 million acres of game lands. And on those game lands, we use them for resource development that supplements our budget. It's how we make ends meet at the end of the year. And that includes, particularly in the northeast, north central part of the state, some natural gas development.
About two years ago, around 22, there were geopolitical factors at play that caused the price of natural gas to spike. And when that happened, our gas revenues increase. And like you said, we essentially hit the, hit the lottery. I don't know that anybody could have anticipated that we'd have that kind of windfall, um, land in our laps. And this is something certainly new for the agency. As long as I've been with the agency, we've always operated on a shoestring budget. Basically, we were one deep in critical positions. You know, you're counting pennies by the end of the year to make sure that you, you know, hit your numbers and get where you need to be. And now all of a sudden, we have this huge windfall. So the question is, how do we manage it responsibly? I keep going back to that. There's no doubt there's a ton of great things that we can do, and we have been doing, and a lot of them involve our game lands. So we've made a ton of infrastructure improvements, things that we've seen as critical needs for the agency that we just didn't have the ability to do so. So, again, if you happen to live near game lands, hunt on one, chances are you've seen some things like new bridges, new roads, new shooting ranges, or maybe even new game lands in your area. And that's all a result of that windfall that we've had in the past couple of years. So, again, we're turning around, using that resource, investing it right back into the outdoors, into creating wildlife habitat on those game lands and being responsible with it. And then at the same time, we want to do so in a way that make. That makes that. That reserve last. We want to. We want to spread that out for years to come, because when it's gone, it means that we would have to ask for hunting licenses to increase the cost, and we don't want to have to do that. I mean, that's not a situation we want to be in. We've been able to keep the cost of a hunting license incredibly low. I believe it's one of the two lowest in the nation, last time I checked. You know, it hasn't raised in 25 years, and that's great.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And you think about that. What hasn't going up?
[00:22:24] Speaker B: What has been 25 years? Yeah. And the answer, probably the only one thing that hasn't is the cost of a Pennsylvania hunting license. And that's great because it means it's affordable for a lot of people, and we want to keep it that way. Uh, so, yeah, we've certainly been blessed. We hit the lottery, but, um, now it's a. It's incumbent on us to spend that resource responsibly, put the investments that we want to and. And really, uh, invest back into our hunters and into wildlife.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: When you think about our gameland system, you know, we're. We're so blessed, so lucky that our forefathers were smart enough for lucky, whatever it was, that this is where we sit today. When you look at hunting opportunities for somebody that wants to get started, I mean, there's not a lot of places that can brag 1.53 million acres that is open to the public and that is managed for wildlife. And for hunting and trapping opportunities, it's pretty incredible. And then our partners, that we share open land that is open to hunting and trapping partners across the state, that's another two plus million acres is. We live in. We live in a great place in the, in great times. And when you look at what we do here at the game commission, we all want to leave it better than we found it. And I think that's the, like, you can close your eyes and we can talk about all the ins and outs and nooks and crannies, but if we can leave this and enjoy our retirement and leave it better than we found it, it's a win.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: That's absolutely right. That's the goal. Right. And I. Because we want to leave it there for future generations. And you're exactly right. I mean, to have 1.53 million acres of public land available to our hunters is incredible. Um, and it goes back to that awesome responsibility we have as staff to manage it responsibly and to make it better and to leave it for future generations. And, you know, it, it allows for so much to happen. It allows for wildlife species to flourish. Um, you know, it, we preserve it for our hunters to recreate on. And really, it also supports just a way of life in Pennsylvania. I know for me and you and I have certainly talked about this over the years, like, growing up, my kids don't know really what pork tastes like. They don't know what beef tastes like, but they know what venison tastes like. And most of it came from a game lands within, you know, half hour of where we live. That's really special. That's something that's, you know, pretty unique to Pennsylvania to be able to live that lifestyle. And we owe it all to our game lands. So, uh, you're absolutely right. I look at it as our job is to make sure that people from generations can experience the same thing.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Well, we're going to get into some of that in a little bit. Cause I know you do spend a ton of time on public land and, you know, maybe getting this now that you're executive director, you kind of got to have your, your playbook, your tricks and tips laid out and then share it with everybody on. Cause you have had success. I mean, I've. Since my short term here, I mean, I've seen lots of deer, a bear, a bear, tons of these things, tons of squirrels. And, you know, I'm going to just sidewind a minute. We were talking about squirrels earlier, and I'm curious, what's your favorite way to prepare squirrels.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Big fan of the crock potential.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Throw them in there, cook them down, and then you can peel that meat off, especially those back legs. And then you could use that meat for anything. You know, stew, tacos, you name it. Like, the possibilities are endless. Whatever you're up for trying. But that's, you know, it's, it's a tougher meat at first, and that's why I believe in that crock pot, to really soften it up.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: I know when I first, the first year I was here, your, your bureau did a wild game cook, and one of your now retired employees, Bob D'Angelo, made squirrel stroganoff. And it was incredible.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: And I know he shared that, that recipe in game news. He shared it with us on social media. And, you know, if you want a great way to cook, it's pretty simple and it's, it's awesome.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: So anything else that you want to talk about when it comes to legislative, I mean, obviously Sunday's a big one. I mean, if not, we're going to start talking about hunting season.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say Sunday's the big one. And it's particularly top of the mind because we're very anxious to see if we can get some movement on it this fall. And ideally, I can't think of anything better than to get it to the governor's desk in late October, early November, just the peak of our hunting seasons. How special that would be to get a bill signing with the governor and really put that into law and then be able to manage wildlife for seven days a week for future generations. So optimistic on that, but also realistic as well because there's not a lot of time on the legislative calendar. If it's when you deal with legislative issues, especially one like this, you know, you can't be discouraged if it doesn't happen because you, there's always another session coming up. So if we can't get it through this fall, we'll start again in January and continue just to beat that drama until we get it, get it into law. So we'll see what happens there. But excited.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: There's also this little thing coming up in November called an election. So it's a crazy year. I mean, it really is.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. There's, there's a lot of moving parts, no doubt.
[00:27:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, you know, when you think of Huntingdez, sometimes we get past this because we get so into it. But hunting is the primary tool for wildlife management. And, you know, that's when you look at our mission and what we have to do by using hunting to manage game animals. You know, when we look at that, and, you know, we're on the week of opening of archery season statewide, so let's talk about deer, you know, because that's when you look at white tailed deer across the country, whitetail deer funds a lot of conservation. I mean, there's people from, you know, we're all singing the same song and we love to do it, but there's some important things that have to happen when we're managing deer. And let, and we went through it this summer, we changed our antlerless dough application or dough process, and all that excitement that builds the people that wait in line to get an antlerless tag, whether it's at Elmerton Avenue, at their favorite retailer or online, you know, I think that the process went smooth, but now we need folks to use those tags. I mean, it's important.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Absolutely. And, you know, just back up for a second. You're right. It's, it's exciting that we're on the cusp now of deer season, and I had to laugh because my neighbor and I, we text constantly, you know, share pictures, and he started the countdown at 17 weeks till deer season.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: And now, now we're here. And it, you know, in a way, it went fast. Can't believe it. Just beginning of season, you're so full of optimism. Right? Like, this is exciting. Um, and I hope it's, you know, it lives up to everybody's expectations and dreams of what it will, uh, what we're hoping for. Um, but, yeah, deer management, it's, it's the biggest issue the game commission has faced, we'll probably ever face of trying to get the deer numbers where they need to be and where they should be. And, um, a big part of it is, uh, killing antler, this deer. And like you said, wildlife management in Pennsylvania depends on hunters, and that's why it's such a huge part of everything we do. So when we talk about how can we get the deer numbers where they need to be, that means how can we have hunters harvesting the amount of deer that we need, particularly the analyst deer. The doe. So was excited to see the process go better this summer. Seemed to work out well for a lot of our hunters. Didn't have that first day rush, and that was by design, you know, spreading out those sales over that first week, first week or so, because we really want to get tags in the hands of hunters who want to use them. Um, and for some hunters, that's one, two, three. Even some units, you're getting up to four tags, and in certain units, um, and usually that's because, uh, CWD, the presence of CWD in those areas. So for, if you hunt and live or hunt in those areas where there's more tags and then they're ever having before, our, our request is find a way to fill one if you can. Um, I know for, for us, Matt, like, we live in an area where CWD is encroaching, you know, closer and closer, year after year, and there's been more tags. And I think kind of right between where our houses are, there was a CW deposit this past year. So to me, that, that was a point of emphasis not to look for another place to hunt, but let's make sure we get even another deer this year. Let's do our part in managing that species. And we're, you know, we're asking our hunters statewide to think about that.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, there's organizations like hunter sharing the harvest. If, you know, if your freezers are full and you have what you need, you know, there's, there's lots of families and folks out there that could really use that venison and hunter sharing the harvest is a great partner.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:30:30] Speaker A: That we with. And, you know, if you have some time and you, you know, in, especially in those areas where another deer is very important to herd health, um, look them up. There's. There's processors all over the state that cooperate with them. If you're in a CWD area, obviously, you know, you want to get the head checked and all that stuff, all that CWD protocol comes into play. But it's very important to the future of hunting, the future of whitetails, that.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: That'S a great point because, you know, they are a resource. We want to manage them. We want to harvest deer, and we certainly don't want to see them go to waste. You know, we want that meat going to, you know, people who need it. And for, you know, like I talked about, we don't really eat pork or beef, but we do eat venison. But at the end of the day, there's only so much we can eat, you know, so every year, so when.
[00:31:13] Speaker A: We deer spaghetti, deer chili, meatballs, I mean, I live it.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. So, in fact, my wife this, this morning was pulling out the last roast, and she said, we're about done, and that's right where we want to be going into the season, right. We want to hit that bottom of the freezer. So if we do get, get more, you know, I think there's opportunities to make sure it's going to those who need it. And that's where hunter sharing the harvest comes in. So thanks for bringing that up.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Because they, you know, we've worked close with them and, you know, they're just such a great partner and it's such a, it shows how sportsmen and hunting are bigger sometimes and, you know, helping folks that may need some venison. And sometimes we take that for granted. And when you donate one, there's just a great feeling about it.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: No doubt. Yep.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: So we, you know, we looking at, looking at CWD and looking at, you know, why we harvest analyst deer. And we also have to think about habitat. And it's one of those things that we don't think about a whole lot. And since I've came to the agency, it's kind of ruined me because I walk through the woods and I see stuff now that I've never noticed before. And, you know, habitat is crucial for your herd health, for deer health, and, and having your numbers in check wherever browse lines aren't over your head and there's stuff out there to eat is crucial. And another reason that we sell and encourage the use of an antlerless tag.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. In fact, this year, more so than ever before, we're even making DMap tags, dear management assistant program tags available on our game lands. And it's for that specific reason where our foresters, our habitat crews are noticing they're having a hard time getting the regeneration that they want on those game lands because of the deere impact. We talk about deer being a keystone species because they impact the forest, they impact the habitat, which in turn impacts a lot of other species. So that's why deer management is so critical. And I'll put in another plug for our game lands where we have d maps. Now, this year you can really help sustain the future of those game lands and the habitat on there by using some of those DMap tags. So I would encourage our hunters to take a look at that. It all goes back to a couple of things, again, responsibly managing our assets and the species, but having hunters being that first line of defense for conservation and going out and filling those tags.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Right. And the other, another thing, especially in the disease areas, we have late season, you know, opportunities, you know, that are after the holidays and especially in the, in the high prevalent rate CWD areas where, you know, we really need to get that herd to a healthy balance to try to slow the spread of chronic wasting disease.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. If you look at CWD, it, it spreads based on deer to deer contact for the most part. So, uh, the science would, would indicate that a way to, to stop that, prevent that is you lower the deer populations. The, the fewer deer that there are on the landscape in that area where CWD is spreading, it reduces the risk of that spread occurring. And the last thing we want is to see it going from unit to unit to unit I and going statewide. So we're trying to manage that disease and keep that prevalence low. So the science would say that the best way to do that is to reduce deer populations. And that's why our board approved this April expanding those firearm opportunities in those units to allow for more harvest to take place after the season. And it's just the antlerless harvest. So if, you know, an individual who has room in the freezer or maybe wants to donate to hunter, sharing the harvest of, has an opportunity in those units to have an expanded rifle season. This is something we saw happen last year in northern Dauphin county where CWD was discovered, and we wanted to try to get out in front of it and reduce that deer population, and it turned out to be pretty popular. So very interested to see how it's received this year, what kind of response we get from the hunters, what kind of harvest we get, and then we'll make management decisions moving forward.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: And it's kind of, it's going back to what you said earlier, kind of like Sunday. We, it was, it was more of a pilot to see if it was successful and how it would work, how it would be received and if it would function good. And then, you know, it's, it's that incremental growth. And, and sometimes with deer management, though, sometimes you got to move quick and, you know, this is one of those things that we're just trying to implement in one of those tools, because with no crystal ball with, with chronic wasting disease, we're doing the best we can with the information that we have. And, you know, we have a good group of folks in wildlife management that definitely have their foot on the gas pedal when it comes to diseases out there.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. And as we've talked about, you know, time and time again, it's using hunters as that first line of defense to manage species. And at the beginning, we talked about how early squirrel season isn't as easy as you think. Late deer season isn't as easy as people think either, that the weather isn't always conducive to being out there for extended period of time. And, um, having participated in that season last year, I can really stress that you need to find the food and you need to be prepared to be patient because they might not start moving out into that food until, you know, ten minutes left of daylight. Because at that point you're, you're hunting, you know, an animal that's been hunted pretty hard. Uh, so they're not going to just be wandering through the woods in the middle of the day like they are going to be in certain areas coming out into that food. And it's a hard hunt, there's no doubt about it. So, um, encourage everybody to give it a try in those units. You're, you're helping us control that, that disease, but no, it's, you're gonna earn anything that you get to pull the trigger on.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: And they're survivalists. I mean, they have dealt with, we put a lot of pressure on them, put a lot of pressure on our animals here. And it's something that a lot of people can't fathom. Especially like you get to the midwest and you talk about opening day of firearm season and the amount of people that go to the woods. I mean, imagine being a deer and all of a sudden all these odors start in one day hit you and you're like, I'm gonna hide and I'm gonna hide. Whether I don't care if you're on game lands or private property or in a city, those deer, especially as they get birthdays, they get pretty smart. They know when we're, we're out there and that's, that's what it takes. Especially, you know, I know you like to hunt a lot of public ground and there's probably some tips that, that you use in, in your quest out there that, that most people don't think about, you know. Cause that's how you're successful out there.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: I think, you know, when it comes to public land, you have to use the hunters to your advantage. So, you know, I look for where, the access points where hunters going to be coming in to and then how can I get out in front of that? Because you're, you're absolutely right. Hunter pressure will move deer, bear, doesn't matter what it is, they're going to move them through that, that area once they, that those odors hit, you know, once they know what's going on. So for me, I've just been fortunate, lucky, whatever you want to call it. I, I try to find some, you know, places that are hard to get and then get there early and wait for the hunters to move some deer to me. And that's kind of always worked out, especially early on in the seasons. But, you know, those, those late seasons, food is everything. You really need to be hunting around it.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Is that why I drive by our park in town there, and I, before work some mornings, I see you down on the chin up bar doing pull ups, right? Getting in shape.
[00:38:10] Speaker B: Because when you go that far, you then have to take the deer out, unfortunately, and you find out how, how weak you are in a hurry when you're, you're grabbing hold onto a deer and start moving.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And ten more birthdays, it hurts even worse, trust me. So let's just talk about some steps on chronic wasting disease. Let's, you know, we need folks to go out there and harvest an analyst deer harvest a dough. You know, you want to properly dispose of those high risk parts. And, you know, all that information in the digest on our website, you know, that's important so we don't move it around. And most importantly is get that deer tested. And we have head bins all across the state. And, you know, we've, we've worked with our bureau of Wildlife Management and some of its partners to get those testing days down. You find out pretty quick if you have a positive or negative result.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: Exactly. And that's something that I'm really excited about, the changes that we've been able to make there in the past couple of years. You know, I talked about, we live in DMA. I've been getting my deer tested for years now. And, you know, when you have that meat, either, you know, you cut it up yourself and it's in your freezer, or, you know, it's at a processor, you're, you're wanting that result back as quickly as possible. Cause you wanna know what to do with it. Um, you know, we certainly don't recommend eating a deer that, you know, is tested positive. So you want to know for, you know, your peace of mind, is that deer positive or not? And, you know, you don't want to be waiting weeks on weeks and weeks. You want a response, a result back as quickly as possible. And I'm excited and proud of the turnaround time we've been able to do for our hunters.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. And it's, it's information that we can gather as well for, you know, for, for the management of the disease, the management of whitetails. It's just like reporting your harvest, right?
[00:39:49] Speaker B: We need to know where that disease is at. Is it spreading, what the prevalence rate is, all those, all those things that go into how we manage it, but we can't know that without data. And that comes back to getting those heads tested.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: And, you know, we were in a meeting a week ago or so about reporting your harvest, and we're seeing those rates come down a little bit for folk, for hunters that are successful and letting us know where that, you know, when I was a kid, I'm admitting bad things probably, but, like, and I remember people in my family, like, they don't need to know what you shot. You know, burn those report cards and, and to see where, to see where we're at today that we need that information. And, you know, it's part, it should be part of the hunt when you should be excited to, to report that harvest. Buck, dough, bear, turkey. I mean, obviously, some of them bear there is check stations, but turkeys, that's how we can figure out the allocation on antlerless tags. That's how we can figure out how healthy the spring turkey population is, success rates, things like that. That data is so important to us. And I encourage everybody, if you're not getting online or sending that report card in after a successful hunt, really think about it next time and let us know how you did. I think reporting your harvest is crucial.
[00:40:57] Speaker B: As we go forward, and I certainly second that. And, you know, we've talked about coming to this agency. You realize how little you actually know about wildlife. And I'm right there with you. I never thought about reporting previously. If it entered my mind afterwards. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. It wasn't a big deal. It wasn't a priority.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Right.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: And then you come here and you learn about how, you know, the management of the species depends on good data, and good data is dependent upon what we get back from our hunters, be it cwd testing on, on those headbands or just where they kill. We've killed, harvested an animal, what kind it was. You know, all that stuff is the foundation for how we manage species. So the better the data, the better our management. And it's, it's been eye opening for me to, to learn just how important that is.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: I'm jealous of some states. Like, I used to spend a lot of time in Missouri and Ohio and Midwest and, like, Missouri, when you shot a turkey or deer, the first thing you wanted to do is go to the check station, check it in, and then as check station. As more and more things went online, like, it's just part of the deal. Like, as soon as you're done, you get on there and check your animal in. And that information is so valuable, it is invaluable to be honest with you. And, you know, when we look at, another thing is the future. And it's. This is something that a lot of hunters have a hard time understanding. The future. The future isn't this weekend in this season. The future is 510, 15 years ago. And it's important that when we look at that, those management opportunities, those management directives, and the way we're heading, that we, we harvest a dough for the future. I mean, it's really important.
[00:42:28] Speaker B: It really is. And the analogy that I've used previously is, you know, if you're looking at saving money on a year to year basis, it really doesn't matter. There's a lot of options you can do, but if you're looking at ten years, like you said, 50 years, then those options really narrow down. And that's the same thing with, with animals. Like any species that we're managing. If you're just thinking year to year, season to season, I mean, let's face it, that's how a lot of us think. Um, you're, you know, you think there's certain things that you can do and, and, or don't do. I mean, we both grew up in the hunting culture where, you know, you look at every doe as three deer for next year, right? You want to save those deer, but when you start, when you expand that time horizon, you start thinking 25 years, 50 years down the road, and the impact that deer have on forest and what that means for other species. You know, what that means for even the citizens of Pennsylvania, the farmers, you know, the motorists, all the. All that goes into everything that we. How we try to manage. And you realize the impact of making sure we're hitting those harvest goals in those species. For doe, for antlilas, deer, it's huge. It's a huge part of what we're trying to do.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: Did you burn your dough tags in Potter county when you were a kid?
[00:43:32] Speaker B: We weren't allowed to get dough tags when I was a kid.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:43:35] Speaker B: That was unheard of.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: So do you have any, um, early season whitetail tips for our hunters out there? Off top of your head?
[00:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah. The. The early season can really be a successful season, I think, um, you know, one thing I'm, I'm always cognizant of, of is the temperatures, though. You don't want to, because we talked about, you know, the scent, the odor. So I'm, I'm keeping that in mind. And if, if it's too warm, I'm not going to push it because I don't want to go into an area, be all sweated up and just educate those deer that, you know, look out.
[00:44:06] Speaker A: Hunting season, go to your buddy's best hunting.
[00:44:08] Speaker B: There you go. That's what I would absolutely encourage. Yeah. So you're going to keep the weather in mind, but if the weather is favorable, if you, if you have an opportunity, uh, to get into some of those areas, I think, uh, people would be surprised just how, um, laid back deer are compared to later on in that season. Um, I think it, my theory is, a big part of it is leaf cover. I just feel like every species feels more safe, insecure when you have full leaf, you know, leaf out that they can move around and they'll be kind of laid back, quite frankly, compared to, you know, December when there's not a leaf on a tree and you can see, you know, a hundred yards, they, they're skittish then. But right now, if you find those areas where they're, where they're coming out to feed and I'm looking for acorns, you know, that's, that's the primary food source. I, you can't go wrong by finding some acorns. Chances are I, uh, you know, that half hour before dark, there's going to be deer moving into those areas. So if you can get in there, minimal disturbance, minimal, um, sweating and odor concern, and you can get into those areas and get yourself a good vantage point and be quiet, you have a really good opportunity, I think, in those early seasons.
[00:45:15] Speaker A: Yeah, the tough thing early that, that I think is, is wind because you get thermals, you get heat, and the wind is, is variable. If you get any kind of cold front pushing through or any kind of front that's giving you a constant wind, you can really up your success rate, in my opinion, early season and, you know, it's just wind is tough in Pennsylvania because we don't have any, like our roads aren't north, south, east, west sectioned off like, we have nooks and crannies that make wind do crazy things.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:45:41] Speaker A: But paying attention, the more you pay attention to the wind, bottom line is the more deer you're going to see. And like you said, you're scouting that food early and their food source varies and there's lots of variables, but you can always, you can always invest on acorns. You know, in no doubt white oaks early in the year, but when white oaks are gone and red oaks are, you know, more sustainable throughout the season.
[00:46:04] Speaker B: In my opinion, yeah, you're absolutely right. I have some apple trees in the corner of my yard and, you know, they've been dropping. And I was up there even this morning, and I was surprised to see how many apples were still on the ground. And that can only mean one thing, that the oaks are really dropping right now because they'll, they'll walk over apples to get to those acorns in that early season. So keep that in mind.
[00:46:24] Speaker A: And even as we look at this morning, you know, daylight hours are shortening every day. You know, you know, first day of fall a couple or a week and a half ago or whatever. And, you know, as we progress that, those daylight hours, the whole lot changes. In a whitetail bucks world. It went a dough, but it really, you know, that ruts coming. You know, we have literally 2025 days till we really start seeing some rut activity. And, you know, that's when it's fun. If you're, you know, hunting bucks is, is when that starts to happen. And that Halloween is that magical time. It's just a magical time to be in the woods from, you know, from the beginning of archery season to the end. But I really like those couple weeks of the rut too, personally. I mean, I just wanted to be out there.
[00:47:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you're absolutely right. I find, you know, we've talked about the need to, to harvest Antlos deer. And I now for me, my probably favorite time to do that is in that early inline season, that, that muzzleloader season. But there's been years because of how the calendar falls. And this, this year is probably going to be one of those where it's later in October. And I can't tell you how many times I've been there with a muzzle order in my hand looking for a deer for the dough, for the freezer, and just seen some nice buck cruising because that, that week that, that, um, you know, in the, from probably like the 25th on is you see a change in the woods. All of a sudden, um, the buck feel it first and they're out looking for Doe. And the doe usually are not interested at that time, which, you know, means that buck are going to be on their feet moving. But then once that, you know, hits in Halloween, it's, it's on.
[00:47:53] Speaker A: Right. I remember, I think my first or second year here that season came in along with the, some of the early bear opportunities. And you kind of called your shot. You're like, I'm taking off. I'm gonna kill a bear. And you did.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Probably should have gone and played the lottery as well, or something else. But, yeah, I think it was 2019, which I think was that first week that they, the board did that bear season, in that early season, that October timeframe, so you could hunt an antler steer or bear. And that was in response to what we were hearing from, from farmers in the north central, particularly, where, you know, their cornfields were just being devastated by bear. And our board heard those, you know, complaints loud and clear. And we expanded some seasons and some opportunities specifically to reduce that bear population in response to the complaints that we were getting. So it, you know, all goes back to responsible management of the species, doing so on behalf of all Pennsylvanians. And the way to do it was by using hunters. So the board, you know, expanded that season, created that, that overlap between analyst year and bear with, with a, with a muzzle odor. And I. Yeah, I was. I was able to call my shot, as you said, and, of course, I didn't mean it, but probably nobody was more surprised than I was. And I remember texting you and saying, it worked out. I can't believe this.
[00:49:04] Speaker A: Well, and you look at, you know, talking about hunters being that, that first line of conservation, you know, we. We had an issue. We was taken care of. And now, you know, now that we got the bears to that manageable number and those seasons, we're, you know, we're pulling them back in a lot of places, and we have a whole new bear study getting ready to happen. You know, we have a new bear biologist coming on board and taking a long look at that. And one thing that we've learned is that we can really work with that bear population when it gets too high or gets too low, that our biologists and our teams do great job with our bear populations in Pennsylvania.
[00:49:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, there was complaints that that population was too high. We needed to reduce it. So our board created some seasons that allowed for the, allowed for the harvest of female bear before they had denned up. You know, typically in that rifle season, a lot of the females are denned up and we're harvesting predominantly males. But by expanding that season earlier into the year, into October, it allowed for a harvest of some female bears and reduced that population. And now in response to it, you're right, the board is pulling some of that back and shortening some of those seasons.
I think we'd all like to think that when it comes to wildlife, we can find a perfect equilibrium where we keep them at year round. But in reality, it's more of a pendulum. Populations are always, they're dynamic they're always changing. They're swinging back and forth. And the bear population was over here. We were probably at the highest we had been in anybody's lifetime. And now it's been reduced and it's over here. So the way to bring it back over to here is to reduce some of those seasons. What that will probably do will cause the population increase again. So that's, you know, we'd love to say, keep things the same, no changes. But the reality is we don't get to.
[00:50:50] Speaker A: In a perfect world.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: In a perfect world.
[00:50:51] Speaker A: Well, Steve, again, thank you for taking time out and getting in front of a lot of this stuff. Coming on the call, the outdoors, we'll do it again. But, you know, I just want to remind hunters and outdoors, outdoorsmen, outdoors women that we all need to work together for the future. And, you know, even though there's times when we can't agree, we have to agree to disagree. And the most important thing out there is our wildlife resources and the tradition of hunting and trapping in Pennsylvania.
[00:51:19] Speaker B: And you're exactly right, Matt. And, you know, you mentioned earlier how we have some new management positions in the agency, some new team that we're putting together, and one of them came to us this summer from another agency. And at the end of her first week, I asked her what she thought, and she said, I've never met so many people who are passionate about what we're doing. And that's true for our employees. It's true for our hunters as well. There's that passion in Pennsylvania about managing wildlife and doing it the right way and being responsible. And we welcome that input from our hunters. We appreciate their passion.
In January, our board will be meeting again in Harrisburg to talk about setting seasons and bag limits for the upcoming year. And we want our hunters to be part of that. We want to hear from them on where they think we're doing a good job, where we think we're doing a bad job, what needs to be improved upon? Because we've talked about a lot, we're managing species on their behalf. Uh, so, absolutely, they're a big part of what we do. We keep them at the forefront, and we want to hear from them. So, um, thanks for the opportunity to do this with you. I hope we can come back at the end of the season, maybe compare and compare notes on how things went. Uh, but for our hunters, you know, we wish them the best of luck this year. And above everything else, though, be safe. Um, if you're going up a tree stand, can't encourage it. Enough, you know, put on a safety harness because we want to make sure that you're able to hunt this year and for years to come. But get out there, enjoy what Pennsylvania has to offer, and we're excited about it.
[00:52:44] Speaker A: Hit it right on the head. Good luck to you, Steve, and your family this fall. And, yes, we'll have to compare after hunting season.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: All right, sounds great.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: Thank you, Steve.
[00:52:52] Speaker B: Thank you.
