Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Be in a position to be the executive director of the game commission, where all three of those things are at the forefront is, again, it's beyond exciting. You know, commotion, leaves flying, and a bird took off and he thought he had missed.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to call of the Outdoors, the podcast of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. First week of turkey season, seeing a lot of great pictures and great smiles out there. Remember to be safe out there in the turkey woods and spray down for ticks. Every day you go and never give up. Those turkeys are out there and they're still letting the woods be known that it's mating season. Got a really special episode today. We'd like to introduce our brand new executive director to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, Steve Smith.
For Pennsylvania hunters and conservationists, our roots run deep. The episodes we bring to you on the Pennsylvania Game Commission's podcast called of the Outdoors will take a deep dive into exposing the incredible work being done by agency staff and partners, including statewide habitat projects, the science behind wildlife management, and what drives agency decisions. The Pennsylvania Game Commission's mission is twofold, to manage and protect wildlife and their habitats for not only current, but future generations, and to promote hunting and trapping in the Keystone state.
Good morning, Steve.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Good morning, Matt.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: We probably didn't think we'd be here the first week of turkey season talking to our new executive director, but here we are. And I want first to welcome you and thank you for taking time out of your busy, crazy schedule right now to come talk to the folks that tune in to call the outdoors and follow the PGC. And let's talk about how you're feeling excited.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: Well, first, you're exactly right. Didn't anticipate we'd be having this conversation today. Today. But beyond excited, honestly, like, things that are important to me outside of my family is hunting wildlife, public lands. And to be in a position to be the executive director of the game commission, where all three of those things are at the forefront, is, again, it's beyond exciting. This is such an incredible opportunity, and I'm really looking forward to it.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: That's awesome. And a lot of folks, and myself included, until I got behind those walls at PGC, didn't realize everything that the game commission has to do, what our mission is and where we're headed. And I think it's important for, you know, folks to know that how important that mission is to you. I mean, you hit it on the head with what you said, but, you know, it's not one sided whatsoever. There's a lot of things going on.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: There there absolutely is. And that you're right. That mission is central to who I am as a person, professionally, personally. This is. It's all the things I care about. So, again, beyond excited, thrilled for this opportunity.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: And, you know, we hear a lot of times, like, you know, people at the game commission don't even hunt. And, you know, that burns in my soul so much. And I know yourself, you know, talk about how you grew up and what hunting has meant to you and how, you know, where'd you get started?
[00:03:01] Speaker A: All right. Yeah, that. I always laugh when I hear that one. People at the game commission aren't. We need hunters at the game commission. Right. The game commission. That people don't even hunt because for the vast majority of us, that's the reason why we're at the gang commission. It's because we care about this so much.
Yeah. My life would be on a different track if I didn't hunt, if I didn't care. It really has set the course for so many things with me professionally. It's what a lot of my free time revolves around. A lot of family memories have all been based on hunting, and it started as early as possible, which, when I was growing up, was twelve.
Extremely jealous of my kids, who've got to experience hunting at a lot younger age, thanks to the mentor program. But for me, I can remember being six, seven years old. Like, will I ever get a chance to hunt? It seems so far off. And that was because it was what my dad did, and I wanted nothing more than to be out there with him doing it myself. So, again, as soon as I turned twelve, could not wait to get that Hunter ed card and start my journey as a hunter. And it's been something that still is very passionate. I'm very passionate about. It's been. Again, what my free time pretty much revolves around is hunting. It's central to who I am.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: I mean, there's not many weeks that you and I in the office haven't had conversations about something about hunting. I mean, personal experiences. And I know I heard you addressed the staff yesterday about, like, your first memories are squirrel hunting in the woodlots where you're from. And, you know, so many times today, squirrel hunting, really, if you want to learn how to hunt, that's the way to go about it. And I know you love squirrels, and we talk about that a lot. And I think it's something that's really becoming a lost artist.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: Oh, 100%. And, yeah, it totally is, because there is no better teacher. Like, if you think about analogy with sports, you got to start at the little leagues, right? And that's what squirrel hunting is. You don't just jump to the big leagues. So squirrel hunting is the ultimate teacher on patience, scouting, finding some sign, making a good shot. Cause it's a pretty little target. Yeah, absolutely. All those things that, I mean, we could go back in our country. There's not too many more traditions as central as hunting squirrels in Pennsylvania. Been happening for a long time. So, yeah, it's still something I care about. I've done every, I shouldn't say everything, but I've done some other things. I've hunted elk in the Rocky Mountains. You know what? I still like hunting squirrels in Pennsylvania, in the wood, lots of Pennsylvania. And that's the first thing I cut my teeth on as a hunter out in rural Berks county, in those farm areas where you get those little woodlots full of oaks. Yeah, that's how I grew up hunting and then graduated onto it. But it's still something I'm really passionate about, still something I enjoy doing. And it's how I got my kids started as well.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Right.
You're probably one of the only people modern day that gets excited about getting permission on a place to go squirrel hunting. I mean, I've seen that firsthand and that's incredible. And, you know, personal, I have personal ties to that too. Cause that's how I cut my teeth. And, you know, a red rider, you probably had a bb gun as a kid. And then, you know, you graduate to, you know, like you said, we had to wait till we're twelve. And I'm jealous a lot. So, you know, taking that background and then obviously as you grow up from a kid and hunting was a passion, I know you were talking about like the pinnacle of your anticipation for the year. If you want to just hit on that a little bit.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Oh, there's no doubt about that. As much as I loved, again, squirrels, small game, when I was a kid, man, my whole year revolved around that end of November, early December timeframe when we were making the trip up north to go to Potter county to hunt deer. And there, you know, that there wasn't a day that went by I wasn't thinking about it, wasn't in my mind preparing for it. And, you know, at that time, we were looking for a spike. We were looking for that, you know, three inch spike sticking up. That was a trophy.
[00:06:36] Speaker B: You drive them around for three days. I know, I remember it.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: You talk about bragging rights when you came home, something like that, you know, an 80 pound spike was like, that was, that's what my year focused on, was that I still go up to Potter county.
The mountains are getting a lot steeper. I'm noticing as I get older, it's weird how that's happening, but, yeah, I mean, it's still something that's really important to me.
[00:06:59] Speaker B: It's amazing. You know, I, you know, where I came from and, you know, got to travel the country and spend time with outdoorsmen all over the United States, and you talk about, like, where you from, Pennsylvania? You ever been to Potter county? Like, Potter county is famous even on the west coast. I mean, it's kind of crazy. And it is God's country. It's a beautiful place, and it's still that way today. And those mountains got a lot steeper for me even 15 years ago, to be honest with you. But, you know, you look at that, you know how you grew up, and then obviously, as you became a young man, you know, your education led you to having a law degree.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is very important in your role here today. I mean, it really is. I mean, because you, you know, a lot of our, well, you know, just talk about where it led you to pgc in your career here, and then we'll get into a little bit more of that.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. You're absolutely right. I had a path in mind. I thought, a direction that I thought I was going to go, and that was I wanted. I studied law. I wanted to be a lawyer. So tried that for a couple years. I like to say I was really focused on it. Even as a teenager, I knew I wanted to practice law. So it took me about ten years of pretty hard dedication to become a lawyer. And it took me about ten weeks to realize I didn't want to do that. It unraveled pretty quickly for me. It wasn't where my passion was. It wasn't something. The day to day practice of law was something I just could not get excited about.
So after a couple years of trying, I had a point where I said, I need to think about what I really care about.
If I'm going to do this for the next 30 years, it better be something that I can enjoy, have some enjoyment from, because I'm just not feeling what I'm trying to do right now. And I thought, well, what am I passionate about?
Hunting in the outdoors, wildlife conservation, wildlife management. That's where my passion is. So I had a thought. I should try to see if the game commission's hiring. And I'd been following the game commission in the news at that time, we were. It was during the Gary alt period, so the game commissioner was in the news a lot, and there was also a lot of legislative issues going on with the game commission. And I started following it, getting more involved, watching them on tv, having these hearings. And it occurred to me, this is what I'm actually really passionate about, because it's wildlife management, it's conservation, it's hunting, and it's also the intersection with law and politics, which is what I've been studying for the past couple of years. So it just so happened I had reached a point where I realized there's no way I could continue practicing law in the private sector. I just wasn't passionate about it. And at the same time, I found out that the game commission was hiring for a position called legislative liaison, and that is the person who represents the game commission with members of the General assembly downtown in Harrisburg. And again, I just thought, this is the intersection of all the things that I care about in life and professionally and what I've studied in college. So I was very fortunate. I sat down with an interview with Karl Rowe. He was the executive director at the time. I think I overwhelmed him with how much I already knew about the game commission because I don't think he considered me a serious applicant. I was pretty young at the time, and I know he had a lot of applicants with deep histories, lobbyists, whatnot histories downtown that I just didn't have. But what I think he saw is that I did have that passion about wildlife, because, as we know, we've talked about, you can't fake that you have it or you don't. And I think he saw that in me and then saw my background and took a, took a real chance. And, in fact, one of the things I'm really excited about is this week he reached out to me, and I haven't talked to him in years, but he reached out.
[00:10:27] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: It really meant a lot to me. And I told him, you know, you took a chance on somebody you probably shouldn't have, you know, almost 20 years ago. So thanks for doing that. So it's been an amazing experience working for the game commission since then.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: And that's something.
Today's social media and just the platform of communications. And when someone takes a stab out there at us as an agency or an employee or this or that, the majority of the folks that work at the Pennsylvania gain commission, not even the majority, all of them, are there for a passion. I mean, it really is a passion. And whether that's a wildlife driven passion, you know, protecting threatening endangered species or the hunting traditions, everybody's got a passion that works here, and that's what makes this place so incredible. And we have a big job to do because we have to leave it better than we found it.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: You're absolutely right. We see that on the inside. But I can't tell you how many times that's been confirmed by people on the outside as well. And I just spoke to an individual the other day who had been with the state for years and had been in a position where he worked with a lot of state agencies. And he reached out to me and he said something interesting, which was, I've never seen employees passionate about an agency like they are at the game commission. And he says, I've dealt with, he listed them all, all the agencies I dealt with. He says, yours always sticks out. Your people really care about the mission. And that's, you know, as executive director, that's what I want to see continuing. That's my role is to make sure that passion that our employees feel like they're making know that they're making a difference.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: Right. And that's awesome. And we love to hear that. But, you know, you talk about your first role there, then, you know, just fast forward to how you, where you started at legislative liaison and where you went from there.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: Sure. After about seven, eight years as a legislative liaison, I moved into the role as director of the Bureau of Information and Education. And that was another just amazing opportunity to oversee our hunter education program, our hunter recruitment program, as well as our social science. And this is when we're measuring the opinions a lot of times of hunters on how they feel about issues, which we could talk about that for a long time because if you have two hunters, you're going to have two different opinions about an issue. It doesn't matter what it is. Our hunters are pretty passionate about how they feel things should be. So measuring Hunter opinion, that's another program area that I got to oversee. And then as well as our publications. So the digest and one in particular that was near and dear to me, I got to oversee our development of the game news. And that was, that was pretty cool. As somebody who grew up reading the game news, that was almost a surreal experience. So I got to do that for about ten years.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: And that's kind of where I was heading with this because, you know, again, you addressed our whole agency just a couple days ago, and you said that when you were young, you read game news cover to cover?
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: And, you know, game news, when you look at game news, it's one publication that's still out there, obviously devoted to Pennsylvania. That's probably, if, you know, pound for pound, it's probably the best selling magazine out there in the country right now because magazines just aren't a thing anymore, and game news keeps going. And for anybody out there that has any interest or read it when you were a kid in your school library, it's still available today. And feel free to look on our website and get yourself a subscription. It's pretty inexpensive, to be honest with you.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: It's still there, and it's as good as ever.
Like I said, I grew up reading it.
Friend of mine made a joke the other day in his house. He said, we had it, too, and we had two things. We were required to read game news in the Bible, and I could kind of relate to that. And I think a lot of us can, who grew up. Because one thing we'll never know is how many hunters not only got their start through game news, but stuck with it because of what they read in game news and read an article about, say, waterfowl hunting and decided to give that a try or read something about turkey hunting as is turkey season, decided to give that a try. It's opened up so many doors for hunters that we'll never be able to wrap our mind around how many people it's touched. But we know it's been a lot.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Absolutely, 100%. And, you know, when you look at, you look at that background that you have, and, you know, in I and E, when we started, we started in I and E in the marketing bureau, but you look at all the functions that happen there, and, you know, our whole goal is to attract more people and show what hunting really is. And when you think of hunting in Pennsylvania, we're very fortunate. We have north of 800,000 licensed hunters with an unbelievable passion. A lot of states can't celebrate that. And, like, what you said earlier was a great point. You got two hunters here. You got two opinions. And, you know, we're trying to mesh a statewide program in everything we do to make it best for wildlife, to make it best for hunters. You know, there's. It's a big job.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: It's really a big job. So you look at your, your, you know, your professional background, your experience with the agency, and, you know, let's just talk about how that can really benefit the agency in wildlife and all Pennsylvanians. I think that's, that's crucial. If you, if you want to just pick your brain a little bit about that. I know you've had a lot to think about last couple days, but, I mean, I feel it's, it's unbelievable opportunity.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: Well, you're right. It has been, there's been a lot on my mind for past couple days, but several other people have said as much that the background that I have, first of all, in working with the legislature, they're an important stakeholder, one that the agency needs to be mindful of. They set ultimately the laws that we have to follow, and they do so a lot of times based on the input they receive from their constituents. So that's an important voice that we need to make sure we're listening to. And that's going to be a priority for me as executive director is to maintain those relationships and where necessary, build upon them, enhance them. So. Absolutely. So I understand the legislative process, what goes into a bill becoming a law again, the input that that group hears from. And a lot of times, you know, they're hearing what their stakeholders, what their constituents are telling them. So we need to make sure at the same time that we're listening to the legislature, acknowledging them, involving them in our process. But are we also doing the same with our constituents, our conservation groups, our hunters that make up the core of who we are as an agency? So doing that outreach to both groups, and that's where my background with working with the legislature but then being in information and education have really come together.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: Right. And we're lucky in this state that, like our game commission, fish commission, we're independent agencies. And, you know, a lot of states don't have that ability to pick professionals in that field. And we're very fortunate in this state, I feel. I mean, I'm, yeah, not only are.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: We independent, but we're also specialized. We're not under the umbrella of a bigger agency that does a lot of different things in which the mission kind of gets lost. We're centrally focused on wildlife conservation and management, and that's so unique to Pennsylvania, and it's really something. It's a product of our hunting community recognizing the importance of that and holding the line and saying it's not going to change. We're going to have the game commission focused on wildlife management and nothing else. And it's a product, again, of the hunting culture and traditions that we have in this state.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: I always tell folks, too, a lot of people ask what that means, and this is probably a terrible country analogy, but it's like when you go to a store to buy ammunition, the store of your choice. Do you want somebody that knows all about ammunition selling it to you, or you want them to call somebody out of the paint or shoe section to come sell you ammunition? And, I mean, that's not apples to apples, but really that's what we're, we're lucky enough to have in this state that we have specialized people like you said, that are, you know, every nook and cranny at the game commission, whether it's science based or law enforcement or getting out to the public, we're able to look and hire professionals with that passion.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: And again, that's only because of our hunters, because they have held that line and said that's how it's going to be, recognizing that they're not always going to agree with the decisions that the agency makes. And I think a lot of them understand that. But at the end of the day, though, they want us independent and they want us centrally focused on our mission, and that's what my goal is as well.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Right. That's incredible. And, you know, another thing that we're so lucky, too, in this state that people can't even fathom that aren't in the commonwealth is the amount of public land, especially state game lands, which are the game commissions and our hunters.
How many acres that we're able to have manage for wildlife forever.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I think we're at around 1.53 million, which you're right. For those. A lot of people outside of Pennsylvania, it would blow their mind. We don't realize how lucky we are. I had a friend of mine who went to a southern state a few years ago when I checked with her the other day, asked if she's hunting and she's like, it's so hard to. I just haven't had a chance because where I live, for me to find someplace to hunt, it's really, really difficult.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Or pay to play.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Or pay to play. And we don't have that in Pennsylvania. For a lot of where our citizens, where they're located in the state, you know, they're within a drive of a game lands, within a drive of a state forest. That's, that's. Or a co op property, even. That's incredible. Like that. We have that. And I think that at the end of the day is a big reason why our hunting culture is so strong is because we provide opportunities to go hunt.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Right. There's. You don't ever have to. I mean, you can knock on doors and you can get permission. There's lots of ways to do it. But, like, there's always, within driving distance, a place that you can go spend the day in the woods no matter what you're chasing. And, and, and we're very lucky to have that. When you look at the whole picture in this word, and we ask a lot of the folks that come on call the outdoors this question, and it's really a personal answer. I don't think there's ever a right or wrong in everybody's difference. But what does conservation mean to you? Steve Smith?
[00:20:06] Speaker A: I think what conservation means to me is managing in such a way that the people that follow us look back and say, you guys did a good job, because they're the ultimate judge of how we're doing today is the people down the road look back, and if we hand them over a strong agency with still our public land opportunities still flourishing, wildlife populations and hunting, then they can say, you guys did a good job. That's what conservation means to me, is keeping that long term vision in mind.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: And that's something I encourage folks listening and all of our hunters is to, sometimes it's easy to fall into the trap where you're thinking about this hunting season, but we really have to look at ten years from now and 20 years from now think about what it's going to look like, because all of us that are here today, our house, our neighborhood, our streets, they're not the same that they were ten years ago. And we have to make sure that that future is bright. I think that's crucial. But, you know, part of our mission, you know, is protecting that future of hunting and trapping and for future generations and even people that aren't born yet. But I want to kind of end this, and I want you to talk about two weeks ago or a week and a half ago, your turkey hunt with your son. And I just want folks to know that, like, you took it down to the wire, and I think it's a pretty awesome story.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: All right. Yeah, gladly. Because I've been hunting for over 30 years now, and this is, it was a hunt that ranks in the top five or so to the extent that I can quantify them.
So, yeah, to give a little context, I have two sons, and as what tends to happen, they're both on polar opposites. My oldest son was a great hunter and a great shot, and he was able to manage his emotions at a very early age, and he's been very effective. My youngest son is the opposite. He's struggled particularly with turkey, and haven't we all, at that moment of truth and I've told him many times, there's nothing like turkey hunting where you will have the hunt fall apart in the last 5 seconds. You've done everything right up to that point. But when that gobbler comes in screaming, it's amazing how it can go to pieces. And sure enough, we've had some struggles over the past couple of years with him, but he was determined this was going to be his year, and it's his last year that he could participate in the youth season.
And he had missed the past two years. And I know he's going to hate the fact that I mentioned that, but.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Nonetheless, if you don't miss, you're not turkey. This is part of it.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: So we were out there this past Saturday, worked the bird early on, and just couldn't get it to come in, couldn't get it to commit. And the whole time I'm kind of watching the radar because I could see rain coming, and I'm just, please hold off a little bit on us. So we're. We're on a game lands.
I think you probably know where. I'm not going to say exactly, but we're on a game lands not too far from here. And there was. I knew there was a good number of birds there, so we moved a couple times and we did what sometimes you got to do with kids to keep them out there. We took a little mid morning nap, and he was laying next to me snoring. I have good video footage of that, so I'll embarrass him with that. And I heard a gobble way off, so I grabbed him and I said, let's go. We're back in the game. We got one going. You know, especially because it was gobbling on its own. That's usually a really good sign late in the morning. Yeah, yeah, late in the morning. I was like, you're gonna get this bird. And I know he was kind of discouraged, but I said, we're not done yet. So we went after the bird. Long story short, we had to make a couple moves. I'm watching my watch the whole time, clocks running down. And then finally I said, look, we're going to make a gamble, get out ahead of this bird, hopefully. And it's 1130. We finally set up, and nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And I walked over to him and I'm saying, I'm sorry, bud. I thought this was going to be your year. Just, you know, and also, boom, there's a gobble right there. So we both looked at each other like, oh, my, this is going to happen. Exactly. So we got set up again. We're checking my watch. I knew we had a couple minutes, so I want, as, as you can imagine, as aggressive as I could on the calls, like one for broke. And they. And there were two gobblers out there. And finally they committed and they came in, and that's. That's a moment I'll never forget, hearing them coming. I'm coming, coming up that bench as loud as they could be on those. In those leaves. And I was watching him shaking like a leaf. We've all been there and then getting goosebumps. Then they both came out, and he took the first one that he could get a shot on.
Then, as you know, there's just, you know, commotion, leaves flying, and a bird took off. And he thought he had missed. And he said. He said as much I missed. And I could hear that pain in his voice. And I ran up to the bench and I said, no, you didn't. You got the one. You were looking at the wrong one. And so it flipped from, you know, lowest moment in his life to, like, the happiest. And, you know, I'm proud to say I still was able to take him onto the ground because he's getting pretty big. I gave him a big bear hug. We went down onto the ground and had a wrestling and just laughing and slapping each other on the back. And, yeah, I've been hunting for a long time, but that's one I'll always remember.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: That's awesome. And there's only going to be a couple more years where you can take him to the ground. You know, it's coming. Steve, you know, we're all at the agency excited to work hand in hand and continue to do the best that we can for wildlife hunting, trapping, and by your side. And we appreciate you taking the time this morning. Do you have anything that you'd like to add to the folks out there that are tuning in?
[00:25:25] Speaker A: I think we covered a lot of what I wanted to say, and again, I'll just. I'll just end where I started. I'm beyond excited about this opportunity. I recognize, you know, how significant it is, the importance of it, and it's. It's overwhelming, but at the same time, I'm committed to it, and I'm looking forward to it. So thank you, Matt.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Thank you. Let's go find a turkey.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: All right, sounds good.
