Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The hole saw was there. It was folded in half. I don't know if they dropped a tree on it or what, but I.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Wish turkeys would shed spurs so we could be out there. That'd be hard to find, man.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: I mean, if you're looking for land access, which as hunters, we almost always are, looking for new land to Hunt.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: At 25, you have two triple trophies already, too.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: I have this theory with the elk and how they shed you.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to Call of the Outdoors, the podcast of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. I can't believe that it's February already. Lots going on. You know, if you're listening to this this week, you can come visit with us down at the NRA show in Harrisburg. You know, it's the biggest sportsman show in the country. And if you're looking for something to do this weekend, this podcast is for you. We got two gentlemen on today that work here at the agency that are ate up with shed hunting. So we're gonna jump right in. Thanks for joining us on Call the Outdoors. And we're going shed hunting for Pennsylvania hunters and conservationists. Our roots run deep. The episodes we bring to you on the Pennsylvania Game Commission's podcast, Call of the Outdoors will take a deep dive into exposing the incredible work being done by agency staff and partners, including statewide habitat projects, the science behind wildlife management, and what drives agency decisions. The Pennsylvania Game Commission's mission is twofold. To manage and protect wildlife and their habitats for not only current, but future generations, and to promote hunting and trapping in the Keystone State.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: Foreign.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: To believe that it's February, the year's flying fast, and, you know, I've been excited for this podcast for a couple weeks because it's that time of year and, you know, we're talking about shed hunting. And we got two special guests today that that work here at the agency. And one of them I have to claim, and the other one is from the north central region. And I'll let you guys take it away. You introduce yourself, Chris.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm Chris Sable. I'm a forester up in the north central region. I been hunting and fishing all my life. And at first I thought I wanted to be a game warden, you know, and well, I got to thinking, then I go to work all the hunting season.
And I had a neighbor who was a forester, and I had job shadowed him. I was like, yeah, this seems okay. Which.
So I went to school for that. And I didn't even know the Game Commission had forestry as an option. And till I was at school one day, and we needed an internship over the summer to graduate, and they had a listing on the bulletin board for, you know, forestry intern with the Game Commission. It was like 15 minutes from my house. Well, I might as well put in.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Heck, yeah.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: And I ended up getting it. And I started as an intern six years ago now, did that for three years, got hired right out of school as a tech, and within a few months was a forester. And now I manage a lot of the game lands I grew up hunting. So that's. That's really awesome. You know, getting to. Getting to grow up hunting those woods and now I get to take care of them.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah. And then you can leave them better than you found it.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: That's. That's a cool thing. And you know, Tyler Strohecker works here in our bureau and. Go ahead, Tyler, tell them how you got here.
[00:03:01] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks, Matt. A little bit unorthodox. I worked for a recruiting firm for about 10 years and then recruiting opportunity came open here with the Pennsylvania Game Commission as an internal recruiter in talent acquisition. So on the marketing and strategic comms team with Matt here and similar to Chris, lifelong hunter and fisherman and just happy to be here supporting the agency.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: And a bonafide skook.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: And a bonafide skook, Yep.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: From Schuylkill County. But you know, a great example of what Tyler does is exactly what you said. You know, a lot of folks don't realize what happens here at the Game Commission and the job opportunities that are there. And I know you said you graduated from Penn State, obviously you probably went to the Dubois campus, right?
[00:03:42] Speaker A: No, I went to Penn State Mon Alto for my two year degree in forestry and then main campus for a year and a half.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: No kidding. Yep, no kidding. That's. That's awesome. And you know, when you look at it, you 25 years old, you know, and when your career's over, you can look at those game lands that you've worked on your whole life and you know, you've left it better than you found it. But welcome. We're glad to have both of you here at Call the Outdoors, and we're glad to have you as employees of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. And you know, when you look at hunting seasons and you look at everything, you know, winter is probably both of your guys, probably your favorite time, especially right now. You know, we're here in February and you already have been out there picking up sheds and they're all beating you, Strohecker.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Because even.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Even Christy, our Social media person back at the office has two already, so she's one up on you this year already.
[00:04:32] Speaker C: It's a long shed hunting season.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: It is. Well, let's talk about it because, you know, it's an opportunity for people to get out there this time of year. And there is some secrets. And I know, you know, shed hunting today has grown so big, it's kind of like turkey hunting for me when I was a kid. You don't want to tell anybody your secrets, and I get it. And we're not going to push you for any of those, those spots for sure, because I'm sure some of them are pretty special. But let's talk about the best time of year. When do you start looking?
[00:04:57] Speaker A: So as far as deer go, I mean, I'm starting to pick up a few now. We're seeing a lot of bucks even up north that are still holding it. Really. It depends on the weather. Like this year we've had a lot of cold temperatures, a lot of snow up home.
So the deer tend to shed a little bit earlier when you have. They're stressed. You know, they have to dig for food. They have to walk through that snow all day. It's, you know, we've had sub zero temperatures a few days, but really the majority of them will hold on until mid February. So mid to February, it's when we want to get out there for deer. Now, of course, up in the north central region, we have the elk.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: By the way, all these elk sheds that are around here are yours. You said you have a house full of them?
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Yep. Yep. So the biggest bulls will start. A couple of them will drop the last few days of February.
And it, it's how you would think it would be. Generally, the biggest ones shed first and then eventually down to the spikes will usually be last.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Will you pick up a spike if you find it?
[00:06:01] Speaker A: I pick up every antler. Don't matter how chewed up it is.
But first two weeks of March, some of this caliber bull start dropping. But prime time for elk, second two weeks, March, first two weeks of April.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: And you told me earlier you don't target elk. You just. They're like. You target whitetails and then you find them.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Yep. They're kind of a bonus for me. You know, I. I'm always trying to find my buck for next year to hunt. And, and if you can find the sheds, you know, you've got a good opportunity to kill them in late season, especially if you can find them multiple years in a row. But if you can find a Little deer shed, and you're walking northern elk, and there's. You're probably going to find an elk shed if it's there. They're pretty easy to see in most places anyway.
[00:06:44] Speaker B: Well, you have to have shed eyes. There's no doubt. We've all walked by giant sheds out there before. You know, I know turkey season. You know, I'm out in the woods a lot and I find sheds. You know, it's usually a little bit late stuff start greening up. But, like, I know that I've walked by giant sheds because you have to have. It's like finding morel mushrooms once you figure it out, like, you can't unsee them then. And it's just the same way. But how about you, Tyler? What same thing?
[00:07:09] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty similar. I've gotten out a little bit so far this year. I did get on the board on Sunday, so I'm happy about that. But, yeah, I'm. March 1st is my date before I'll enter any betting area for whitetail. So I don't want to kick, especially on private property or my own ground when I'm looking for sheds. If I know where buck might be bedding, I don't want to go in there before March, kick them to the neighbor's property and have them shed over there. So field edges, corn fields, some travel routes where I don't think deer are bedding. I'll be out there right now looking for those easy ones. And then that first week of March, it'll heat up and I'll start putting miles on.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: That's a strategy. It really is a strategy. Now you look at, like the Midwest, you know, shed hunting is so big out there. It's. And it's getting that way here, especially in your country, where in the elk range. I mean, it's, It's. It's a tourist destination to find an elk shed, and that's pretty crazy. Any weather conditions for you? Do you. Do you like me?
[00:08:00] Speaker C: I want a rainy day. I. You know, there's snow. I. Sometimes I like snow, sometimes I don't. It depends on how deep it is. It depends on if I think sheds are going to be sitting on top of it or their tines are going to be up, poking through. But you give me a wet, rainy day overcast, the white on these sheds is just gonna glow. And you can see sheds sometimes from 30, 40 yards away in the woods that you'd be walking right next to on a sunny day, when that's checkerboarded, it's very difficult to find those sheds. So I like a rainy, overcast day myself.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: How about you?
[00:08:30] Speaker A: I'm the same. But I'd like to add, you know, on a sunny day, there's things you can do that'll really help. I mean, it's as good as a rainy day. Keep the sun to your back. And on sunny days, I'm not going to go walking anywhere. There's a lot of shadows, like even through the woods. You know, I'm looking in those fields or maybe in a blueberry patch or something because the shadows, what hides the antlers. If, if it's out in the wide open, you know, you can still see it even if you are walking into the sun a little bit. But you got the sun to your back, that antler's going to be shining.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: I talk about that a lot. Turkey hunting too. Like if you want to sit by a tree and you know, hide from a turkey, which obviously they can see good, if you get in the shadows, it works a heck of a lot better than the sun beating down on your, on your head. But. And you know, when you look at those perfect days, you know, where are the best places? Is there any particular place you like better than the other? Or you're just everywhere?
[00:09:28] Speaker A: I'm pretty much everywhere.
Definitely the big food sources. Like if I get into an area where it looks like a rototiller went through it, I'm probably grid searching that, especially if I find an antler. Now I'm running and gunning most of the time, so I pick one up and then that's when I start zigzagging. I will say though, if you want to find like a mature buck, sometimes they'll be in that big food source. But a lot of times the big ones will stay, you know, kind of away from the does and the younger bucks. So you may have a big, big dug up area. And then there's a little one over here. That little one might be that big buck and two I've seen where.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: And you're talking about in the big woods too. You're talking about food source.
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Like this is all like, what what?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Is there any particular food source this time of year? I know it changes, but something you really like.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: It's pretty variable. I mean, this year we had pretty good red oak acorn crop up there. But I do think those tend to dry up a little early. Like they're still hitting them now, but I would expect within the next two, three weeks they're probably going to get off of those a little bit. Especially if we get the snow melt, they're going to start moving to those little bit greener food sources. If they can find, you know, grass or something on a south facing slope that melts off quicker, starts to get a little juice in it, they're going to hit it now on a bad food year. Teaberry or browse. I think teaberry is really overlooked. The deer love it.
I found a lot of sheds in teaberry or anywhere with it has to be the right species of tree. And this is where being a forester helps, you know, you know all this, you know everything they're eating. So you know they don't like birch or beetroot. They'll eat it if they have to, but they tend to leave it alone. You want places where there's red maple, oak, serviceberry, sassafras that they can get to. And you know that browse is always above the snow for the most part so it's easy for them to get to it.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: You know, so many folks think deer just eat acorns. I mean really. And when you think about their diet, obviously the first time I ever went on a trip with a bunch of foresters, you know, they were on the ground digging through the leaves and looking and getting crazy over all this stuff that I never knew was in the woods. I mean and it's, it's pretty cool when you say that, you know, even like south facing slope, you know when you say that or you know that the exposure to the sun and when it brings up the grass, even in the farm country, you know when that grass starts to get greener and it's kind of a great example because you're hunting sheds more where there's a little bit more ag.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. And you're looking for those travel corridors. If you, if you can ID somewhat area where those deer are bedding, if they're getting in, if the snow is melted a little bit, they're going to be working down to those ag fields. So you can find those, those travel corridors. And in the springtime here you're going to have a very wet ground. So it's going to look like a highway coming down, up and down that mountain. So those are good places. But similar to Chris, I found the highest deer density sign areas I find. Usually I don't find those big sheds, I usually find them slightly off to the side.
If you're hunting a new property, I always start south facing slopes and then benches as well. If you're hunting on a mountain, if you can find those elevation points where they can walk a ridge line out. I find a lot of sheds just working those saddles, working those benches along the mountain.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: How much has shed hunting helped your next fall, your hunting season?
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Oh, quite immensely.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You take a lot of that intel back to the bank and store it for next year?
[00:12:53] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. For sure. And, you know, you might find a shed in an area that maybe you don't hunt. But what I like to do is take a look around even before you pick it up. Why was that deer there? You know, sure, he might be feeding, but what was he feeding on? Or maybe he's bedding there. Why was he bedding there? And then you can take that and apply it to the areas you do hunt. So, you know, what, what are the common denominators between those two places? And if the food, if it was food and it's the same the next year in both those places, you know, maybe you didn't find that shed there, but you can kill a buck, a different buck in the same, same type of place.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's pretty awesome. And you know, scouting by any stretch of the imagination, you want to put success in your favor.
Getting your boots dirty is important.
[00:13:39] Speaker C: Yeah, I need to be out in the woods with a goal in mind. So if I'm scouting in shed season, I found so many archery spots where I'm constantly on onx. I'm like, oh, this would be a great place to put a saddle in. Or man, this is great cover. Man bucker bed in here. I can see this sign. So I think it's the best time to be out in the woods. You give the late archery season a couple weeks to die down. Deer are back to their natural patterns. You can see. Okay, where are deer on this property hanging out? What are they eating? Where are they bedding? And then you can apply that in archery season or rifle. And it's been very good.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I love when there's snow on the ground. And you know, right now, if you get up early in the morning, you're starting to hear the little songbirds sing. And you know, there's end in store to this winter when you, when you really think about it and it's, it is an exciting time to be out there. But do either of you use any trail cameras to see when those, those bucks are dropping?
[00:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I have a couple out to me. I, I found it. It sometimes helps, but I, I don't. I stick to my March 1 rule regardless of what my cameras are telling me. But yeah, I can see, you know, hey, that. That buck shed there, that's a fresh buck or there's a one. One antler running around. So they can be helpful.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: I have all my cameras out right now, more so to see who made it versus for shed hunting.
Those cameras can really help you, and they can really hurt you. You know, that buck might be there. He might be walking 10ft behind your camera every day, and you'll never know. Well, if you're basing your shed hunt off your trail camera data, not what you're seeing on the ground, you're not gonna even go there.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: I think trail cameras, I mean, obviously, we could do a whole talk about trail cameras, but when you look at trail cameras, they've obviously helped success rates because it's giving you that intel. But like you said, I have so many friends, and I've caught myself a couple times, like, I don't have anything on camera. And you lose. Like, you can't always rely on that intel that's coming in on the camera. Like you said, he could walk 10ft behind.
Who knows? He might be smart enough not to walk in front of your camera. Or, you know, you never. You never know. And again, dirty boots is. And like, for your profession, you're out there every day.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Like, you're. You're laying eyes out there. And I bet.
I bet a couple bucks that you looked the whole way down here this morning to see if you could see a shed from the windshield. Yeah. I mean.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You too. I know you. Yeah. Talk about your method. Like you said, like, you're running and gunning when you hit the woods. When you're. Let's say you go to a new area. How do you start out?
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Try to find where they're at first. You know, up. Up north, you can go a long ways without seeing sign. That doesn't mean there ain't deer close by, you know, but especially when the snow is deep and it's cold, they group up and they're on that big food source. So you can walk a long ways before you find that food source. But once you find it, especially if you pick up an antler, you know, that's when you really got to slow down, start gridding. I like to watch on onyx. I'll turn my track on, and then I can. I'll walk a line, and I can move over, you know, 20 yards or whatever and walk a line back, and I just keep track of my zigzags the whole way through. And that has helped pick up. It helps you find A few match sets. If the, you know, if the other side's close, that's usually a good way to, good way to get them both. But, and then typically, you know, the younger bucks anyways are grouped up with the does. You know, you'll pick up, you might pick up 10, 12 sheds in one spot.
[00:16:54] Speaker B: So those younger bucks are like you, like 25 year olds, like you're just hanging out with your does. And then you got an old guy like Strohecker over here that's hanging off to the side. Right. Is that what you look?
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Pretty much, yep.
[00:17:06] Speaker C: Yeah. Similar. I subscribe to miles for piles, so if I'm on a property I'm going to be putting as many miles down as I can and until I find that right sign. Right. And then that's when the Onyx tracker goes on. I do put a waypoint on every shed I find just so I can start to paint a picture by the end of the year. And then you start to build this year over year where it's, hey, at this elevation line is where I'm typically finding mature buck bedding. So if you're even going to adjacent properties, I'll try to get similar elevation, I'll try to get similar slope, whatever the case may be. But that Onx tracker is great too because you can go, let's say we get into April and I can pull up a property and I can say, well, I'm going to shed hunt this today. Here's a hole that I didn't already cover and that's great, you can go in there, maybe you'll find a shed that you haven't already went to. So Onx tracker and marking those sheds is great.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: And you know, that kind of gets to what we're going to talk about next. But you know, both hit it. You know, we have those apps today that are pretty incredible for whether you're shed hunting, whether you're scouting, whether you're tree stands and wind direct. I mean, it's crazy the information we can have today. But you know, how many times do you go back to the same area?
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Not always.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Really? You might only shed hunt at one time?
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Yep. I mean at this point I've got so many spots that I want to go to, I usually don't make it back. Now I'll go back to the same spot year after year, might not be in the same season, but. And if you can find, you know, a buck, same buck sheds or even don't have to be the same buck. But if you find Sheds in the same spot, you know, consistently every year. Good chance you can kill that deer in rifle season or late season, because that's where he's living in the winter.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: That time of year. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? You go back?
[00:18:44] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll go back for my field edges, my food sources that are out in the open. So anything I'm checking right now. My onyx tracker is not on. It's still too early in my book. I know deer can go back to those areas and still drop, but once we get into March, then if I check the area once, then it's considered covered in my mind and I won't go back to it.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: And you said something earlier I just want to come back to because I think it's important. You said you get out there and cover ground till you find the deer, you know, and we get a lot of people, you know, that think that want a deer behind every tree. And you spend your life on public, you hunt public, you show me some pictures of success and you know, you have an advantage over a lot of folks because you're out there every day. But talk about, talk about how many miles you cover in hunting season on some of those big tracks of game lands. And until you find the deer. And I know you told me that, you know, there's. When you shot that real big one, there was 17 cars in the parking lot. But you, you know, get to where away from people, but you get to where the deer are. And let's talk about that, if you will.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, every day at work for me is a scouting mission too. Like if I'm marking timber, I'm grid searching, sometimes hundreds of acres at a time, you know, so I'm seeing everything.
And then, I mean, my scouting starts now with shed hunting, but I'm out there almost every weekend throughout the summer trying to keep track where those deer are going, what they're eating. You know, the food sources change throughout the year.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: And then just finding those little spots where, okay, maybe nobody's been here yet because those, the big bucks especially, they feel pressure. They will move, you know, they're not going to stay in the same place. And once you find those areas, you know, your first sit in, there's your best chance because if you don't get him on the first one, he knows you're there more times than not. So definitely. I mean, it's hundreds of miles every year.
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: And two, once they get, once they get that pressured and feel it a little bit, they're not going to come out of the thick stuff, especially in rifle season.
So just as an example, I have a set of sheds that I found three or four years ago.
I was in real thick laurel, and there was, you know, average amount of deer sign in it. It was not an acorn year. We didn't have acorns anywhere. And I got to this spot in the laurel where all the laurel was mowed off, and there was big deer crap everywhere. Like, well, something was hanging out here for a reason. And I got in. Right in the middle of that circle, there was this bed. It was two inches into the ground, and I found both the sheds right there. So that buck knew just from that pressure not to come out. I mean, there was deer sign outside the laurel, digging fern roots and stuff, but he knew if he wanted to survive, he had to stay in there, and he did till he dropped.
[00:21:31] Speaker B: They don't get that big by being not smart. I mean, obviously, the rut sometimes makes them lose their mind a little bit, but. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I mean, that's really cool.
[00:21:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:40] Speaker B: How about you? I mean, when you're out there, you know, we talked about shed hunting and scouting and hanging stands. Is there anything that you really like to look for till next year, for next season? Is there any one in particular thing that you find that that's, like, consistent?
[00:21:54] Speaker C: Yeah, it just depends. I think that's where, you know, keeping track of the sheds you found year over year can really help. One thing I had to learn when I really started shed hunting heavy is necessarily where I'm seeing deer in the summer, and the fall is not where I'm gonna find their sheds in the winter. And I think there was a learning curve for me. I wanted to hit those tried and true spots where I hunt, where I always see deer, and you'd go there, and you're not finding sheds because maybe the winter food isn't there. Maybe that's not where they're bedding at that time. So finding that out and then being able to apply it for future scouting, I think is important. And that's where just covering that ground until you run into that deer sign can really help you out, versus hitting where you think they should be, necessarily.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Right, right. That's the advantage we have, is the top of the food chain, predators. We can reason and figure things out. And I love how you're putting two and two together. And, you know, at 25, you have two triple trophies already.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Two.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah. That's pretty. That's pretty awesome. I mean, bears for a Lot of hunters in Pennsylvania is like the holy grail. I mean the opportunities to do that is pretty cool. And at 25, you obviously have put your time in to get that done.
I wish turkeys would shed spurs so we could get out there and find them. That'd be hard to find though, you know. I know you said you spoke to Corey Galvis where he said he's been shed hunting and found a turkey leg laying in the middle of the woods. That was a banded turkey that you know, either a hunter wounded and got something. Yeah. That you know. You know your eyes are good when you can see a turkey leg laying on the ground. And I'm sure you find some, any, any cool other things you found out there when you're looking like maybe arrowheads or something like that.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Not arrowheads. I've picked up crosscut saws though, from back in the turkey baron days. Yeah, I have one full. The whole saw was there. It was folded in half. I don't know if they dropped a tree on it or what, but I was able to. It broke when I straightened it out, but I have it hanging on the wall now too.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: That's pretty awesome. Especially in your career. I mean, it makes you realize how lucky we are now to have chainsaws and skidders and all that stuff to get the job done. You can't imagine being on both ends of a cross cut saw trying to. Trying to do your job.
So what about binoculars?
Is that a key tool for shed hunting?
[00:23:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I always have a chest rig on when I'm shed hunting.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: Chest rig, you can tell you're.
[00:24:03] Speaker C: Well, you gotta keep your hands free to be holding those sheds. But yeah, always have my binos, especially for, you know, when you're getting into like a winter wheat field or something like that. If you don't want to walk that, you just get some elevation. You can. Glass. If you're walking through the woods and something catches your eye, you'd be surprised at how many things will catch your eye when you're looking for sheds. So being able to pop the binos up and see is that a shed or is that just a stick that's sticking up or whatever the case is, it saves you from having to go out and go back if you're trying to walk a line, whatever the case may be. But corn fields, winter wheat fields especially, I'm sitting in glass in those pretty heavy.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Not so much in the woods. I mean, I always carry mine, but it's more to rule out things that I think are sheds. From far away so I don't have to walk up to them.
But it's hard to sit there in glass and actually glass one up, you know, because you can't see very far in the woods around here, even if it's open woods, you know, 100 yards, 150 yards at best. But there's so many sticks and other things that look like antlers.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: There's lots of shed bushes out there. Right.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: Especially you get in the laurel. Any. Every laurel branch looks like an antler.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Really.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: I saw, I just saw on Social on like PA whitetail or something. A gentleman found a monster like it doesn't even look like a PA buck. And that just tells you they're out there. I mean in, you know, even in areas where there's lots of pressure where those deer are at. You know, Corey, he was on our podcast, Corey Galvis early and talked about the buck that, you know, his buck's number two in the state, you know, and, and that deer lived around people and. But it was just that little hole that, that he found where nobody was putting pressure on that deer, you know. And most of those big bucks live where they know who's coming and who's going. I mean, they're just, that's why they get big. They're smart.
[00:25:45] Speaker C: Yeah. And the ironic thing with sheds, right, is the, the bigger the shed, you know, that's what you want. You want those big sheds, but they're easier to find. It's the little sheds, it's the spikes, it's the little forks that when I'm finding those, when I'm out, I'm like, alright, my eyes are doing well today. I'm trained on the floor, so it's interesting. Another thing I do, I don't know if you ever do it, Cory, is when I find a shed, a lot of times I'll look the other way and throw it out in front of me if I haven't found one for 15 or 20 minutes. And just see how long it takes my eye to train on that shed and find it in the woods. So I know it's out in front of me, but I just don't see where it lands.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: And training yourself like a dog constantly.
[00:26:17] Speaker C: You know, but it is, it's, it's keeping your eyes to, keeping your eyes fine tuned to what you're looking for. The color that helps me.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: I'm doing that all the time, I think too. Don't look for the whole antler, look for a piece of it. Like I'm looking For the tip of a tine or just that curve. Maybe the color. You know, if you go out looking for that rack of ribs sticking up, sure, you might find a couple of those, but you're gonna miss every. Every smaller one or most of them.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: How about elk sheds? Because they don't have that definitive like that. I mean, I bet. I bet you could walk by an elk shed pretty easy because of the color, too. I mean, you know, how do you. Do you train your eyes for that? Or is it just like you said, it's a bonus.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: I'm looking for the ivory tips or that big white base. So I have this theory with the elk and how they shed. You know, think about how the antlers are sitting on an elk's head. They're up and out.
So those antlers that they're real heavy at the end. Well, if he's just standing there or even feeding or walking slow, and that antler doesn't hit anything. He's not sparring or anything. If it falls off, it's gonna land tines up. That first one, well, they get lopsided. They don't like that. They start trying to knock them off.
Usually if you find the second one, it's tines down or even a couple of these ones here. I've actually found where the tines were shoved in the ground, and I picked one out. You know, I saw that base two feet off the ground from pretty far away. Just that little white circle. And that's all. That's all you need to know to.
Yep, that's an alkaline.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: So is that how you found that one?
[00:27:59] Speaker A: No, it was. It was tines up. First one that fell off.
[00:28:02] Speaker B: I got you. I got you. And I can't imagine, like. Can you remember the first elk shed you ever found?
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: It's like the first buck you probably shot too. It's like one of those days that sticks out. Let's talk about that one.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So it was end March, I think, the last weekend, maybe Friday evening. And my dad and I, we had watched these four bulls, which was weird. They had stayed in the same area all through the fall and through the winter. We had seen them out there every month from September to February was the last we were out there. We went out looking for them after working school. The one day. And there's a food plot there. We circled the whole food plot. There was sign. We knew they were still in there, didn't find it. And we're like, ah, somebody's probably been in the field. Already today. Because, you know, anymore every food plot gets walked almost every day, if not every day.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: It's a, it's a. It's a tourist attraction for sure. I mean, it's getting more and more popular every day.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: Yep. But we walked out in the field and sure enough, there was one side of one of those bulls that we had been watching all winter. And then I went back two days later and ended up picking up the other one half a mile away. He had moved pretty far, but he left a line of rubs to guide me where he went. So that's pretty awesome.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Do you remember your first shed?
[00:29:22] Speaker C: I do, yeah. A little spring hole on the side of the mountain. That's something I check every year. And I found sheds there again.
If you can find that watering source that was near a bedding area, they could go there that spring and all winter long get a drink. And found the first shed sticking out of the mud. And I remember walking up on him like that was almost as cool as shooting a buck. Except, you know, this buck didn't have to die. I had that, you know, if you want to call it a trophy, but that I was hooked instantaneously and anymore when you find a shed, it's just that shot of adrenaline and joy that you get when you find one. It's a pretty cool experience.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: It's funny how you. When you get older, I. One of my heroes name was. Was Ben Rogers Lee. And you know, Ben was a turkey hunter. He like made turkey call him famous and anyway, I remember hearing him hearing stories of him saying that he wish he could breathe life back into that gobbler that came in that he just shot. Because that, that thrill is just like you said, like these things, they're still living. And you're finding you're finding a trophy of that animal for sure. So we're going back here. Let's talk about matching sets.
There's probably no rhyme or reason. I'm. I'm guessing, but like, do you have any theories on those? I know the elk one is pretty awesome. That's a great. Yeah, that's not a theory. That happens, obviously.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So with deer, you know, if they're not close to each other, odds are you're probably not going to find them.
But it's possible.
I don't find many sets from deer unless they're laying like right beside each other or within 50 yards. Now the elk, like I mentioned before, that first antler falls off, it's almost always tines up unless he was sparring or whatever.
But definitely pay attention to what way that antler is facing when it fell off. You know, before you even pick it up. Look around and figure out what way he was going.
And if it was the first one, he's going to leave sign more times than not. Especially these big ones, they're trying to knock that other one off. So, like this set here, I came to a fresh rub on a white pine. It was completely shredded. So I'm like, all right, I know that bull was just here, he's probably lost one.
And I looked back 20 yards and there was the first side laying there.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: So he rubbed after he dropped, you feel?
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Yeah, he rubbed after he dropped the first one, trying to knock the second one off. So I picked that one up and I just saw what way he was heading, at least the way it looked like he was headed. And sure enough, there was a rub line going that way. And I didn't go 100 yards and looked across this little ravine and I could see the other one laying tines down, you know, like he had, and it was just all thrashed up or he had, you know, swung his head around trying to knock it off and dropped it. So if you find one tines down or like I mentioned before, stuck in the ground or where he had knocked it off, do the opposite, go backwards. And it doesn't always work, but it's worth a shot, but it's worth trying.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Right? Let's talk about match sets, because you have one here and, you know, it's kind of the story with. These are really cool.
[00:32:20] Speaker C: Yeah, this was. This is kind of like my pride and joy shed, just because, I mean, the size and the mass and it's just. It's just a perfect shed. And one thing I'll point out too, Matt, you can see I always just put the year of the shed I find. You know, when you get into the few hundreds of sheds at home, it's kind of nice to go back and look at and say, yeah, what year was good? And things like that. So this was a site I found and I had grid searched everywhere. I looked up and down the mountain. I mean, 30, 40 miles in that general area. Just constantly looking for his other side and I didn't find it.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Well, this buck was famous around Eugene.
[00:32:51] Speaker C: I mean, I wanted to find it. Yeah, you know, there were some pictures of this buck and ultimately I did find his other side, but I found it a year later. It was one of the first sheds I found the next year. And it really wasn't that far away. It was 5, 5, 600 yards away from this one, but just in an area I didn't check. But it's kind of cool. You can see the difference between a fresh shed and a year old. You can see this is kind of bleached white with the sun. It's lighter in here and here in the backside. We had some. Some mice or some squirrels do a little bit of damage to it, so it's a shame it isn't perfect in the same way. But it was. It was a neat story and I was glad to close the book on it that I found both sheds there.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: And you think about it, when you look at that, probably in your shed room or your house, you sound like your house is covered with sheds. Every one of these things, when you look at them, there's a story, you know, and you. We can kind of think, who knows what chewed on that? I mean, we have an idea, but, you know, how long do you think they lay till something starts chewing on them?
[00:33:45] Speaker A: Oh, I've seen them chewed on a couple days after they probably fallen off. I mean, I have a couple fresh elk antlers. You know, they only last a couple of days before somebody finds them most times, and they've already got the tines nibbled on. But some of them last years. I found ones that were gray and got moss growing on them, not a bite out of them.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: What's the smallest shed that you ever found?
[00:34:06] Speaker A: So I found a little spike that was maybe 2 inches long. We were on. It was at work, we were on a prescribed fire and two of the other guys were standing there beside the buggy and they walked away. They were standing on it. I just looked down and seen it just laying there little.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: They get mad at you when you found that?
[00:34:22] Speaker A: Not really, but.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: How about you?
[00:34:25] Speaker C: Have you about the size of my pinky little spike? One of the cool things I found once is I actually found a tine that was chewed off by a squirrel or something. So it was only a couple inches, but it was just the tine just laying there. And I thought I found a cool little spike. And here it was just a tine. But yeah, they take a little more skill, I think, to find, though. So I like to like to find the spikes.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: So one of the things that's happening across the country or dogs that people are training to do sheds. Have you guys ever any interest in or thought about ever getting training a shed dog?
[00:34:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I have a English springer spaniel. I tried training him back when he was a puppy to do it and he Would do it in the yard, he'd pick him up. But he. I think he was afraid of the brow tine poking him in the face, so he never really would pick them up in the woods. The only antler he has ever picked up was an elk spike. So he did get one. But he was walking, you know, two steps in front of me in the field and bent down and picked something up. You know, turn around, he had dog spike in his mouth. Other than that, he sniffs him and walks away.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: I got you. Well, as you get older, you might think about a shed dog. You ever thought about it?
[00:35:27] Speaker C: Yeah, I've thought about it. I need to get my wife on board for that for. For another dog. But I have a buddy and a cousin that does it. And I mean, his dog finds way more sheds than he does every year. Yeah, he, he has that dog train really well. And I mean, you got to think how much more ground they're covering, they're smelling, they're seeing. So it's. If you have a shed dog, it can, it can really increase your chances.
[00:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah, there's no doubt about it. You know, we talked about this a little bit earlier, and I'm just going to pick your brain about, you know, let's talk about last shed season. Was there anything in particular?
Because I know that you show me a photo of your success this fall. Did you have any intel from shed hunting on that deer?
[00:36:05] Speaker A: No, that was the first time I'd ever picked up his sheds. But like I mentioned earlier, you find sheds in the spot every year, you're gonna see bucks there, you know, rifle. And then late season, which every year I've ever been in that spot, I found antlers. And even the two I've picked up this year so far were in that same area. So I knew he was there from last year. Went in first morning or rifle killed him.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: How about you? Did you have any.
[00:36:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: Any intel from the year before?
[00:36:33] Speaker C: Maybe not just the year before, but over years. I mean, I. Where I killed my buck in archery. I. I started hunting there because I found sheds there, you know, for the last few years. And it's a, it's a nice travel corridor. I wasn't hunting it before and I sat in there and last two years I killed buck in that area because of shed hunting. So, yeah, it's, it's a great tool to scout.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: How about deadheads?
[00:36:54] Speaker A: They gotta stay in the woods.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: Oh, I know that we're gonna talk about that, but do you find them?
[00:36:58] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Every once in a While it's rough.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Out there, I mean, obviously, you know, we could have somebody that, that took, you know, got a bad hit on something. But, you know, you know, you look at, especially a mature buck, I mean, they fight and every day of their life and, you know, they do die out there. But that's one thing we do need to talk about. If you find a deadhead, you know, you can't take it out. You need to call the call, call our, you know, 833 number, PGC Hunt, and let them know and meet the warden and you can get it, but you're gonna have to pay for it, you know, and it's just one of our regulations that are out there. But they are out there and I'm sure you guys have both run across them.
[00:37:31] Speaker C: Yeah, there's quite a few deadheads out there. But you know, if you find one, it's a nice one, call it in, you know, and that way it's not sitting out there and going to waste, so to speak. And if you want to display it and you have that deadhead, absolutely do it. But you're gonna find them. There's no question about it.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, and that's, you know, the legal way. It has to be shed through natural causes. So that's the legal. And it's completely legal, you know, pretty much everywhere. Public land. You know, if you're out there on private, you obviously want to knock on doors and you talk about that. You're good at talking to farmers.
[00:38:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I think if you're looking for land access, which as hunters we almost always are looking for new land to hunt. Shed hunting has been the best tool for me to get onto a property. You know, a lot of farmers or, you know, even if they have mountain land, people hunt around here and they're going to be protective of that land or they might not hunt it, but they might have somebody else. So you just asking to shed hunt is a great way to get onto the property, save tractor tires. I was just going to say that. Yeah, for farmers, no, all good. Yeah. You know, if you knock on a farmer's door and you say, hey, if you don't want to ruin a tractor tire, let me go out and look in your cut fields. And it's a pretty easy yes to get.
Another tip I'll do, I'll say is take a backpack and pick up all the garbage you see, you know, pick the garbage up for that landowner, knock on their door, build a relationship. Hey, these are the sheds I found on your Property also picked up this bag of garbage. Can't wait to do it again next year. Right. And then you start to build that rapport up and a lot of times that leads into, hey, I see a lot of turkeys on this land. You know, do you have anybody turkey hunting it or hey, who's archery hunting in here? And you can maybe build a relationship enough to, to be able to hunt that land as well, if that's what you're after.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: And I know you've also taken advantage of, you know, the ag tag program and helping farmers out that, you know that where their population's pretty much out of control. And I mean you're one of our go tos to that to, you know, talk about and I think we should talk about that real quick.
[00:39:22] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our ag tag program, it's a great program that we have to help support farmers and really at its core it connects hunters with these farmers that have deer population problems. So one of the main ag tag properties I am able to harvest doe at, I actually got on because of shed hunting. You know, it was the same way. I knocked on his door, asked about shed hunting and long story short, I get 4 AG tags for that property every year and my freezer's filled before archery even starts because I'm taking advantage of that program. So I think it's just a great tool for us as hunters to educate farmers on if they don't know about it. And obviously it's a great tool for the farmers to alleviate some of that deer pressure.
[00:40:00] Speaker B: Right. And I'm going to come back to you on this. In the big woods and as a forester, you know, when you think about and we're getting off shed hunting for a second, you think about does and antlerless deer. How important is it for. For the forest that we, we manage those does?
[00:40:13] Speaker A: Oh, it's incredibly important. You know, you can't, we can't do a timber sale right now without putting up a fence. In most places we just have so many does and not many people to shoot them. You know, like two GS. Most of the north central region, you can only get one tag for there now you can get d map but then you're limited to a certain area and you know, it's. It's like a camp destination for a lot of people. There's not many people that live there and we get a lot of influx from. For rifle season mostly, you know, maybe a lot of guys only have a buck tag. So every year, you know, all these Bucks are getting killed. Not that many does. And I've. I've seen it in my lifetime. You know, I've been hunting 2G public land my whole life. And the size of the bucks is going down, the number of deer I see going up. And, you know, I think that's there's too many does that we're not getting. You know, there's more competition for food. You know, if that buck has to fight with 50 does for food instead of, you know, 10 or whatever. Now your habitat's degraded too. They're browsing everything that we want to grow.
[00:41:24] Speaker B: So like you said about birch and stuff, they don't eat that stuff looks great because they don't eat it and everything else they do eat.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, from the forestry. And we want the future stand to look like what it does now or better. Well, if it's an oak stand, you know, I can't bring myself to cut it if I'm not going to have oak there once it's done.
You know, we don't want birch. I mean, in a sense, you know, it's not good for most wildlife. I mean, sure, grouse use it when it's young, but, you know, we want mass producing trees that are going to feed the wildlife and, you know, pine trees for thermal cover, stuff like that. But we can't. You can't grow it with number of deer.
[00:42:05] Speaker B: Let's talk about grass for a second. Are you hearing some grass up there? More and more every year, every time I come up to that area. You know, when I was a kid, there was grouse everywhere. And you know, obviously when I go to the North Central, I've been hearing tons, tons of grouse. Not tons, but I hear a lot of grouse drumming. And it's great to hear it up in your country. And it's because of the work that y'all are doing, for sure.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of my work area we've been seeing. I've been seeing a lot of grouse. Some of my game lands have had a lot of cutting done on them in the past. They're great anywhere there's laurel. I mean, not really where you'd expect to find a grouse, but that thick thermal cover, they're in there. Hard to find them.
[00:42:41] Speaker B: But, you know, let's just talk about this real quick. We talk, you know, public land. We have tons of public land across the state where anybody can go shed hunt. There are a couple places like some state parks and some federal lands that, you know, you can't do that. But, you know, all of our game lands, state forest system A and F, you know, you can get out there and in your lifetime, you can't cover it all for sure. And we have that opportunity to do that. So, you know, get out there in a couple weeks and start walking around and just. This is a trophy for us. But just learning for next year. I mean, the more time you spend out there, more dirt you're getting your boots. You know, it's important. And also, it isn't lawful to sell sheds, and most shed hunters aren't going to want to sell them anyway. But some states, like, I know, I lived in Iowa for seven years, and there'd be a shed sale every year and where people would take. And some of those giant Midwestern bucks are worth a lot of money to some folks, but it's not legal to sell them here. But, you know, before we wrap up, I want. I want to just come back for two questions to each of you. If you could give your best tip to somebody that wants to get started shed hunting, what would that be? And I'm putting you on the spot. We didn't ask. We didn't have that in the piece of paper.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Start walking and go find the. Go find the right habitat. You know, like I mentioned earlier, they aren't going to be everywhere. You know, you got to find where they're hanging out. And even with the elk, you know, they're grazers.
As soon as that snows off and we start getting green on the fields, that's where they're going to be. That's where the pressure is, the competition. I mean, good luck. Hope you're the first one there. But. But they're. That's where they'll be at.
[00:44:13] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: So, I mean, definitely pay attention to what you're seeing when you're walking. The sign, you know, what's growing there, Is it green? Is there acorns, stuff like that? Is there thick cover close by? You know, you got to be where they're at. Plain, simple.
[00:44:29] Speaker B: It's just like hunting. Yeah, you can spend a lot of time where they're not. I mean, these guys here, big duck hunters, if they're hunting a hole of water that there's no ducks, you know what, they're gonna just be lonely talking to each other all day. I mean, they do that most time anyway. But how about you? Any good tips?
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Yeah, cover ground would be my best tip. And don't get discouraged. You know, every year I keep track of my sheds per mile, walked and Some of my best years might be one shed for every five or six miles walked. And it's especially early in the season. I might walk 15, 20 miles before I find a shed. So, you know, I talk to some people like I shed hunted. I got out for three miles, I didn't find one. It's like, you know, even a 60 acre track, you can do 20, 30 miles of walking back and forth in that 60 acre acres to really cover it.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: So any, any particular equipment that you use or good pair of boots?
[00:45:15] Speaker C: Yes, broken in boots, pretty much.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: You're a forester, you guys, one leg's longer than the other. There's nowhere. You ever been in the woods with a forester?
[00:45:23] Speaker C: Not often.
[00:45:23] Speaker B: Even if you think you're in great shape, you're not. No way. I mean they, they're like billy goats, like, especially in your country. I mean they have a whole different pace than, than us flatlanders. That's.
[00:45:34] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:45:35] Speaker B: You call us flatlanders down here. That used when I was a kid.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: No, we don't say that.
[00:45:39] Speaker B: Alright, here's one that's way off the cuff and this is important. I'll start with you. What does conservation mean to you?
[00:45:46] Speaker C: It's a great question.
I mean conservation at its core for me is just leaving it better than, you know, than we found it. Whether that's with habitat or management or, you know, even interpersonally and educating folks on what conservation means and what it is, you know, are we leaving it better for future generations? And if, if we're doing an act that does that to me, that's, that's support and conservation.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: Awesome. How about you?
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much the same thing. I mean the Game Commission's mission, you know, protect and manage wildlife for future generations and to promote hunting and trapping. Yeah, well, that's part of it.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: I'm just.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: Hunting is. Yeah, absolutely, but, but definitely, you know, every day we're losing, we're losing habitat across the state. You know, there's all sorts of, you know, things being built, infrastructure, buildings and the habitat's slowly going away. So what we have, you know, game commission has 1.5 million acres. We got to do what we can to keep that that way. You know, we're going to lose every day we lose more private land or other, other places that, you know, maybe it was once gray habitat. Now that's gone. Those animals have to go somewhere else.
[00:46:57] Speaker B: Right. And that's why we hunt. You're right. Like, you know, that's why we, that's why we harvest does. But I want to get with you sometime up in your country on the job and, you know, take us for a walk. And I'd like a lot of folks in our bureau to come, you know, see what you guys do day in and day out, because it really is a great experience. And, you know, so many people out there, even folks that are listening to call the outdoors, they know it happens, but they don't really see because it's in your heart every day. Is there anything you'd like to leave folks with before we start? Sign off here.
[00:47:27] Speaker A: Stay out of elk country.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: Good tip.
How about you, Tyler?
[00:47:34] Speaker C: No, thanks for having me. Just get out and enjoy the outdoors.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: All right. All right. Maybe we'll catch back up on part two of shed hunting. Maybe here in the future, future episodes next year, whatever. But thank you, gentlemen, for joining us this morning. We appreciate it and thank you. What you do for the agency here at the Game Commission, every one of our employees is very important to the role, to conservation, and we all want to leave it better than we found it. So good luck the rest of shed season. Yep.
[00:47:56] Speaker A: Thanks, Matt.
