Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: That's something that has been talked about, dreamt about for decades, and now here we are.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: When you have too many does in an area, too many deer, your buck hunting suffers from it, and people find that hard to believe.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Just generally speaking, our board's ability to regulate anything involving hunting is dependent upon having the legal authority to do so.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Lots of changes happening when we look at our elk hunt, and some of them are incredible. I mean, we have more elk tags this year.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: The Certified Hunter program is, in my mind, just an incredible success story.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Well, here we are back right on the heels of our April Board of Commissioners meeting. And with us today is our executive director, Steve Smith. And we're going to talk about a lot what has happened this past weekend.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Good to be back with you, Matt.
As you said, a lot took place this past weekend. A lot has taken place so far this year.
And happy to talk about what our hunters can look forward to for the rest of the year.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Right. It's an exciting time here at the Game Commission, and it's an exciting time for hunters out there. And when you really think about it, and we're going to just go over this again because I think it's so important for our folks out there to understand how it works. We kind of covered it in January, but let's talk about, you know, what the board, what happened at the meeting this week and what usually happens in our April meeting here at the agency.
[00:01:16] Speaker A: Sure. Glad to. And I'll back up a little bit and start with January, because January is when it all began. Right. So around mid to late January, we publicly announce what the board's agenda is going to look like for that meeting. And that first board meeting of the year typically takes place at the very end of January. So about a week, 10 days in advance, we put out an agenda, and that describes all the things that the board is going to consider at that meeting.
Most. The ones that get the most attention, of course, are what the seasons and bag limits are going to be for the upcoming license year. So January comes. The board hears from staff. They. They hear reports from staff, review the data that we have available, and then they make their first vote on those seasons and bag limits.
We then publicize that, put it out for review, additional comments come in. And in April, the board comes back for a second time and finalizes all those proposals so that we can get them ahead of time out in our digest. And I know your staff's probably working on that first thing this morning, getting that digest ready, so that by the time Our hunters start buying licenses at the end of June.
They have clear guidance on what the seasons are going to be for the upcoming year.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's kind of a moving target a lot of times because you know, obviously at our board meeting on Saturday there was lots of discussions that happened. But that's why we're here today. We're here to just talk about like the high points and some changes and some great things that we can celebrate too. And we're just going to dive right into it like Sunday hunting. I mean when you talk about something that's very positive for sportsmen, Sunday hunting is atop the list.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: It's, it is. And I'm glad you brought it up. It's almost hard to believe that here we are finally in a position where the board approved a full slate of Sunday hunting opportunities for our licensed buyers for the upcoming year. I mean, how incredible is that? That's something that has been talked about, dreamt about for decades and now here we are. Of course we had Sunday hunting enacted on a limited basis. Last year proved to be, I thought, incredibly successful.
Really happy that we didn't have a single incident of a hunting related shooting incident involving a, a member of the public. And of course that has had been always a topic of concern. So rolled it out for 13 Sundays last year. Didn't see any of that impact, any of those concerns that, that we were worried about. So with that, that gave us the comfort level to recommend it to our board for full Sunday hunting inclusion for the upcoming license year. And that's where we're at, right?
[00:03:42] Speaker B: And a lot of the seasons that, I mean, I'll just take firearms deer season instead of ending on a Saturday this year, it's another day of opportunity. It ends on Sunday this year. And a lot of those Sundays are the ending dates for a lot of the season. So you know, we encourage everybody to, you know, when the Digest is out there or on the website to take a look to see how the Sundays have affected your favorite seasons to get out there for sure.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: And that's a great point. And we did exactly what you said just for simplicity, to make it easy to follow and understand. Instead of closing most those seasons on a Saturday where they traditionally have been, we've extended it through to the Sunday. So in doing that just creates a lot more opportunities for our hunters.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: It does. And you know, there's some caveats to that like waterfowl or migratory bird season. I mean we do have a caveat where this year where the board made a Hard decision because there was. We had survey results and we're going to keep our framework as it is and exclude Sundays for this year's waterfowl season.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up because that is, of course, the one exception. And a couple factors really went into that decision. First, the board looked at some survey data that had been done and it showed a slight preference to keeping Sundays where Sunday hunting wasn't taking place for migratory birds. Slight preference.
One of the factors that really drove that though, was an understanding that if that were to change and Sunday hunting were to be allowed for migratory birds, once that decision is made, there's no going back.
So it's unlike any other season where our board constantly would have the ability to adjust the season dates based on data and how hunters feel about it. With migratory birds, once that decision is made, there is no opportunity to adjust that. So given that the board decided to maintain the traditional structure, which doesn't include Sundays, the way that season is structured, I think it's important to note that the absence of Sundays doesn't decrease the amount of days to participate. It's the same amount of days. It's just a question of whether or not Sundays are there. And for this upcoming year, Sundays will not be. However, I think the board made it clear that they wanted to keep getting input from hunters to see if they prefer Sundays or not for that particular season.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, just to reiterate, that framework is set by the feds. It's not. I mean, we have to abide by that 60 day policy where we have to fit our season key, our season into that. And that's where the, that's, that's. We're going to continue to look at that. I mean, who knows what the future is. But when you look at long range, you know, goals and expectations, what you said is 100% facts. Once that happens, we're never going to be able to walk it back. So I mean, that's the decision that was made on Saturday. And I, you know, like we talked about, the survey results showed the positives in keeping Sunday out of waterfowl seasons. And just. Or migratory bird, they get mad at us all the time, as I say. But just a reminder though, in migratory birds, it also can, you know, for obviously waterfowl, woodcock and mourning doves, there will be no hunting. No Sunday hunting this year.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: That's right. And that being the case, and I spoke to actually one hunter just recently who was disappointed that Sundays aren't included for waterfowl but what he was happy about is that he knows the topic will come up again next year. He knows it's not something that's set in law anymore like it used to be.
In fact, our board could change that next year, and he knows that. So there was an appreciation of even if it didn't happen for this year, at least next year there will be another opportunity. And that's what's new now that the law has been changed and now that our board can regulate Sunday hunting. Yeah.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: And you know, one thing to just bounce on top of that too is, and thoroughly, we recommend, we want public comment. We want you, you know, you can get on our website to leave a comment for the board. And same thing with public comment prior to the board meetings. You know, prior to the, on Saturday morning, we had 15, 16 people come in. And, you know, we're all in this together. You can just see it in the room that everybody's trying to work together. And I think for conservation as a whole, it's important we're all on the same team and trying to do the same thing. So we want to hear from folks out there, for sure.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. That was great point. And that comment that we heard on Saturday, as well as what we received through emails, you could, you could see that the impact it was having and how the board was taking it into consideration when trying to set these seasons.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: And just for the public out there that's viewing a lot of people leave their comments on social media. I mean, obviously we get a lot of comments on Facebook and Instagram.
Those comments don't go to the board. You have to go to our website. And there's a very simple way to click and to leave a comment. And if you want the board to hear you, please do that, because those comments come in every day and they go in front of the board all the time. They're not going to read our social media pages.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah, there's an established process. We want to get that input, but it has to be through that Right. Process. So that's, that's the mechanism that we've set up in place. And again, the board clearly was taking it into consideration.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: So as we're all watching spring happen here, grass is getting green, leaves are coming out. I mean, if you're a turkey hunter, you're getting excited. I know both of us are pretty pumped up. I've been hearing some yelping coming from upstairs lately, but. And there has been some changes to spring gobbler season.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, there have been for next year. And I just want to make the point clear. It's for next hunting season, not the one that starts this year, but for next year, Sunday hunting will be available for our spring gobbler hunters, beginning with that junior season, which traditionally has been a one day. Now that can extend cover that whole weekend, Saturday and Sunday as well as then for the regular season. So exciting opportunity for our hunters.
As with anything involving additional opportunities, and certainly adding Sundays in is additional opportunities, we want to be cautious about how we do so to make sure it doesn't impact the resource. So because of that, in addition to making that change again for next year, the board reduced the bag limit to one. So that will get rid of that second spring gobbler tag for at least next year. That way, what we can do is measure the harvest, see that, what kind of impact Sunday hunting had, and hopefully make adjustments if needed to down the road. But for at least the first year or two, at least until we can get some really good data on what the success rate is with Sunday hunting, we're going to limit individuals just taking one spring gobbler for the foreseeable future. So it's an exciting change. Essentially, we're trading more opportunity on one hand by giving more weekends and getting that Sundays by reducing it, on the other by eliminating that second spring gobbler. But we'll measure the impact. We'll see what the harvest is, we'll see how our, what our hunters prefer after a couple years of this new structure and then make changes as needed.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Sure. And you know, when you look at, we have a major turkey study going on right now, and you know, when you look at, across the country, you know, there's been a lot of decline in Turkey populations, you know, coast to coast, and a lot of people are looking at that. So, you know, when you look at the move that's made, when you look at conservation and what our job is, we have to look at the future. And it's hard sometimes. We're all guilty of it, looking at next year. And you know, one thing that I'm going to make a plea out there to our hunters when that happens, you know, if you were with that hunter that hunted all season by yourself, now you have the opportunity to maybe introduce someone new or take somebody or mentor. Because the biggest thing that we can do as outdoorsmen, as conservationists, is pass it on. And this is one of those, on the positive side of that, to look at that opportunity.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. And with this season, I know you've heard me say it before, with all seasons Involving Sunday hunting, our kind of approach was err on the side of caution. And that's why we implemented Sunday hunting on a limited basis for year one. But now, as we're ready to implement it for spring gobbler in order to again err on the side of caution, see what the impact is.
Our board agreed with us and removed that second spring gobbler tag. And then we'll make adjustments as needed after we have some good data.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: And what a good decision.
When you look at the youth season, what a good decision by the board there, because how many times in the last 10 years has the. The only day that the youth had that opportunity has it rained? Yeah, you know, and it's just. I think that's the greatest decision of this whole thing, in my opinion.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: I think so, too. And as with a lot of other seasons, I wish it had just started 10 years ago, because as somebody who is fortunate enough to participate in that season the past 10 years, I'd say probably 50% of the time that Saturday was just bad weather day, high winds, rain, and then you wake up Sunday morning and it's beautiful. So I'm won't be able to enjoy it myself this year with my kids, but I'm glad for other parents. Grandparents are taking some youngsters out. If that is in fact the case again this year where Saturdays, the weather isn't very cooperative now, potentially they have Sundays again for next license year.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: That's something we can't control. But even though we probably have gotten blamed for it a few times, I would imagine. Yeah.
So, you know, going on from turkeys. Elk. Elk. You know, obviously elk was a big topic at the meeting and lots of changes happening when we look at, you know, our elk hunt. And some of them are incredible. I mean, we have more elk tags this year. I mean, how can. How can anybody argue with that program? Because it's, you know, Jeremy and the folks at Wildlife Management are doing an incredible job up there with our elk herd.
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Absolutely. They are incredible species. And when you go up there, and I know you've been up there as well during that September, October timeframe, it's. It's amazing to see the impact that it has up there in that community, how many people it brings in from all over the area. And then of course, our hunting opportunities, which, with the proposals that the board finalize on Saturday, those hunting opportunities are going to expand, create some new opportunities where we can spread that hunting pressure around in some of those units. And I think that our hunters will. Who are able to get drawn are going to appreciate that.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. We have a brand new October rifle season that the board approved this week and it's going to hit the tail end of the rut.
That was one of the things, you know, obviously we have some new hunt zones that are coming out, you know, just to preload the rest of the elk changes. We're going to have Jeremy come in here in a couple weeks and go over all of it and get down in the trenches. Because the biggest encouragement that we have to our hunters out there, when that information hits the website, the Digest and just out there on social. You're really going to have to pay attention this year to apply for your elk hunt.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think of all the species that we make hunting opportunities for, elk has probably seen the most changes in recent years. With the cap on non residents, the requirement to have a general hunting license when you apply, we have. We're gonna have new zones in effect for this year. So definitely, you know, check our website, check the Digest.
But we feel pretty confident all those changes are gonna be for the betterment of the species and for our hunters.
[00:14:15] Speaker B: Right. And you know, the application process is gonna be simplified this year as well. And our elk licenses will go on sale May 1, which is just a couple days away. So all that information is out there and, you know, you can buy it all the way into the month of July before the drawing. And I'm not exactly sure on the last day, but we'll cover that in Jeremy's podcast. But, you know, make sure that you're doing your homework when you apply, because you have five opportunities to apply for an elk tag.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Five opportunities. And beginning this year for the cost of one application.
[00:14:46] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: So it's a benefit to our hunters. In years past, there's been multiple applications. You had to specify which season this year. Again, we've condensed it, made it simple for our hunters and I think they'll see that benefit May 1st when they go on sale.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Right, Absolutely.
So we're going to move from turkeys and talk about deer. And it seems like we're way away from deer season, but lots of things are happening. And you know, like you said, we're getting ready to print the Digest. And white tailed deer drive a lot of conservation across this country. So let's talk about some of the things that happened again this past weekend.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Right. And our board continued with the structure for firearms deer season with the Saturday after Thanksgiving. And this will be, I believe, eight years now of having it at that time period. Before doing so, I Think it's important and worth noting that our board heard a staff report that we prepared that looked at license sales data over the past couple years and really showed some encouraging numbers.
What it showed is the board got the result that they were hoping to, which by starting that season earlier on a weekend as opposed to Monday, it's keeping younger hunters engaged.
The phrase is, it's kind of flattened that curve. We saw pretty significant decline in license sales previously.
And then when the board made that change, that decline, to be clear, is still happening, but not at the rate that it was previously. So I think we'll take that as a positive. I think any wildlife agency across the country that's dealing with the same issues that we are as far as declining participation overall, would say that anything that is, that is helping to slow down that decline is encouraging.
And we certainly are as well with what we've seen in the past couple years. So given that the board continued starting firearms deer season on that Saturday after Thanksgiving just to create more opportunity for as many hunters as possible.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: And as a taken away from my job and as a Pennsylvania going to being a hunter, I'm proud of Pennsylvania. When you look at across the country, the decline that's happening out there, it just shows that folks are passing it on. And again, conservation depends on the future.
And if that's what it took and that's what it takes, we all should, we all should celebrate that fact. I mean, obviously there's folks out there that, you know, everybody wants different things. I mean, you and I probably don't agree with whatever everything that happens, but we have to do what's best, best for the resource first. And that's what we have to look at. And obviously our mission is promoting hunting and trapping for current and future generations. And that word, future is a big word. It's hard to look into the future ten years from now. So I mean, and those decisions that the board makes, that is a big part that plays into these decisions. And it's something that we all should look for in those decisions.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well said. And you're exactly right. Our mission is certainly a challenging one. Just to manage wildlife the state, when you talk about doing so, and also thinking about long term impacts and making sure that that hunter base is there, that's when our mission gets really challenging. And the best way to do that is to create opportunities for younger hunters today, because that's who we're going to need to be here to manage wildlife populations decades from now. So that's why the board has made the Decisions that it has in recent years. And the data shows that those decisions are working.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: I saw a podcast the other day and I don't even remember who it was. A gentleman was on, I think he was from Michigan, and he said, you have to manage for the resource first. And that stuck with me a lot. A lot of times we don't think like that. And it's true. I mean, you have to manage for the resource out there. And as hunters and conservationists, hunting is our tool to manage those resources. And it is difficult. It's a difficult process.
You know, we all have buddies that shoot you a snide text or something like that and you try to explain it to everybody. And usually if you can get through that, they understand deep down might not agree with it, but they understand.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: And that's all you can ask, right?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: As you said, never going to get complete agreement on any issue. But if we all understand that, we're working towards the same goal and you made a great point about how many, how strong our hunting culture remains in this state and it should be a source of pride. You know, we talked about what next season is going to look like. We should also mention what this past one was, and our hunters had a great season.
Harvested the highest number of deer in since 2002.
There's not too many other states that have the ability to do that. To harvest that many deer, it requires having a significant number of hunters that are still participating. So it's a great source of pride. It should be for us as Pennsylvania hunters that when we need our hunters to help manage this deer herd, get it under control, they responded and they've done so.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. Well. Talking about managing deer the way we do it is with antlerless or doe tags, as a lot of us call them. But again, this year, you are guaranteed your first round of antlerless tags for our residents. And that's. That's pretty incredible.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: It is happy to, to be able to offer that again this year. I think we've seen last year that it worked out really well. We took that sense of urgency away.
I think previously we all were there at 8 o' clock on that first day when they came on sale because you needed to get one before they were gone. Right now we're being able to offer that anytime during that first round. You can come. So for those who need to have that license in hand at 8 o' clock on Monday morning, and we know there's going to be plenty of them, that's great. But for Those who want to just wait a couple days, let that initial rush pass and then go get your licenses at a time that's really convenient for you. That option is going to be available as well.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah, you have from June 22nd till July 13th, I think it is 8am on July 13th to get. And again, as a resident, you're, you're guaranteed the WMU of your choice.
Speaking of that, I just said a hunting license will go on sale on June 22 this year. So that's a good thing to remember. And like you said, we don't have to create a rush for that. I mean, we're going to have the same folks at headquarters that are there every year. And we kind of.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: It's tradition. Right?
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of like family reunion, really. I mean, you see folks, and we appreciate the urgency for some of those folks and we love hearing their hunting stories from last year.
So some other changes within CWD regulations, you know, obviously something that everybody in the state is aware of and, you know, the concerns and what we have to do as hunters to, you know, help keep this disease under control.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah, that's probably one of the biggest changes that we've made recently.
If you look at taking a step back, if you look at CWD and the regulations and how they developed it was, I'll say, fairly easy. When we had it in just a few areas in the state, we could identify those areas, create disease management areas, draw up those boundaries, and everybody knew essentially where they were.
As CWD has unfortunately expanded, those disease management areas have expanded, the boundaries are consistently changing.
And we got to the point where we felt it's creating confusion for our hunters to know is this area within a disease management area or not. So to potentially simplify that and make it easier for our hunters to keep pace with the changes regarding cwd, we're going to be managing it more on the WMU basis. And our hunters are at this point comfortable with those WMUs. We know where they are, that we know those boundaries. So we're going to be identifying the WMUs that have the presence of CWD in the wild population.
Again, just to get our hunters at a point where they can understand if they're hunting in an area where there is CWD or not.
And one of the biggest changes though, we're gonna make is, and this is gonna be a statewide change regarding what to do with the disposal of high risk parts. And we're putting in place a prohibition on disposing high risk parts on the landscape.
It's Not a prohibition on the travel, on the, on the movement of those parts.
If you think about if you're in one county and you shot a deer thrown in the back of a truck and you drive to the next county, it's not the driving of that that creates a risk factor, it's if those parts get dumped on the landscape. So no matter where you are in the state, there's a prohibition. Now that's going to be in place for this year on disposing high risk parts anywhere other than in your trash or through a processor. So we're going to encourage our hunters dispose of them there and then you always are going to have that option too of just breaking the carcass down right where you shot it in the woods or fields, wherever you might be. So those are the three areas that we're going to emphasize with our hunters for this upcoming year. Again, what we don't want to see is taking a deer from point A to point B and then dumping the high risk parts out on the landscape. That's what really creates the risk factor for the continued spread of cwd.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: Right. And it can't be any more simple. Throw it away in your trash stream, take it to a certified processor, have your, you know, your. And let them dispose of it or processor or bone it out in the field. I mean it's.
And when you look at where we've been and where we're going, that's what the board did on Saturday was incredible for me.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: And again, that makes sense too in this way. Also, it's a statewide regulation, right? So we don't want our hunters in that moment. You shot a deer have to figure out, okay, what can I do with it now? Can I take it here, can I take it there? It's going to be a regulation for all of our hunters. Take it to a processor or put it in the trash stream or just break it down right there in the field. Follow those steps and you can do your part to help slow down the risk of spreading cwd.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: So we wish everybody the luck to be able to take one home and if they process it themselves or whatever, let's talk about urine and you know, what's going on with deer. And a lot of people like to.
I can remember as far back as I can remember, not just my family, but you know, other folks that just love to use that as something they think might help them out there in the woods. And there's been a lot of things going on within the past couple years, but you kind of simplified that as well too.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: We did, and it was in response to a change that was done legislatively. So our boards just generally speaking, our board's ability to regulate anything involving hunting is dependent upon having the legal authority to do so. So last year in one of the bills that was passed, the legislature removed the ability to regulate the use of deer urine.
So if given that we no longer have the authority to regulate it, that means that we had to remove any language to that effect in our regulations. And therefore the impact is then that deer urine is now lawful for use in hunting as it was decades ago. And that's going to be a statewide regulation, obviously. So for this upcoming year, there is nothing legally that prohibits hunters from using deer yarn.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, it's just one of those tools that a lot of folks find, find success in out there. You know, some people do and don't use it, but. And the other thing, you know, there's for that we've had in place too is feeding restrictions. And I think there's been some more simplified approach to feeding in the state this year too.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: Yeah, feeding is obviously a potential to be a contentious issue, and we understand that. So under the new proposal or package that are board approved, there's still going to be the possibility to impose feeding bans in certain areas of the state. It just won't be an automatic ban that takes place wherever there's discovery of cwd. And that's how it's been in the past couple years. What we think this is going to allow us to do is to use education as a tool before just going right to a regulatory framework. So now moving forward, if we detect CWD in the wild deer herd, we can just use education, use our hunters, sportsman's community to get the message out about the impact of feeding and then work with that community to phase in regulations as the time is right.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: I think that's a great thing because we both know that, you know, sometimes we live so close to it.
We have 850,000 hunters and 13 million people. And some people put stuff out there in those areas that have no idea that it's a law that you're not supposed to do that. I think that's a great approach. And probably in the long run we'll be more successful to congregating those deer in those areas that they don't need to be congregated in artificially. So we're gonna move from deer to talk about one of the other big game species that people get excited about, and that's black bears and Just some minor changes this year with black bears. Yeah.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: And I'm always happy to talk about how we've been able to manage bears in the past couple of years, because I think it's a great example of how to use regulated hunting to get that species at a level where we need it to be. And what we've been able to do over the past couple of years is increase that season, increase some opportunities, measure the impact that it had on the species, and then make adjustments as needed year in and year out.
So for this year, there's been certain areas of the state up in the Northeast where, in particular, wildlife management units, commissioners indicated they've received a high level of complaints about bear damage, particularly as it relates to agricultural areas.
So because of that, the board instituted some extended archery seasons for bears in those units.
What that's going to allow us to do is again, manage that population through hunting, which is. Is our primary method of managing wildlife populations. So there's going to be extended opportunities for hunters in units 3C and 3D.
We'll measure what that impact is, see what that harvest looks like, and then make recommendations as to whether or not continue it for the upcoming years. But that will be in place for this hunting season and again, creating a lot of opportunities for our hunters to work with landowners to manage that population.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: When you look at, you know, you hit the nail on the head when you look at our opportunities and black bears here in Pennsylvania. It's a great example of how turn the faucet on or turn the faucet off and really manage that population. And, you know, when you go across this country, a lot of folks talk about the bear hunting opportunities in Pennsylvania. It's pretty amazing. And again, something that Pennsylvania should be proud of.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: For sure.
You know, going from bears, talk about small game. And a lot of small game hunters are pretty excited about what happened this past weekend.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the changes the board made is to keep those small game seasons open through the rifle deer season, which is traditionally when they stop, keep them open through then all the way to December 24th, take that break for Christmas Day, and then open them up again. So I think that change reflects kind of the shift that has happened in our hunting ranks. If you think back traditionally, that rifle deer season was when majority of our hunters were out there. So we shut everything down. Right. And now if you see that the popularity of archery, how successful our archery hunters have been in recent years, there's not quite that need to just shut everything down. Now during that two weeks with Rifle deer season. So this is something that small game hunters reached out to. Board members asked to see this change, and we were able to agree with them, make that recommendation. And now small game hunters will have additional opportunities as well.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: And you know, I'm going to go back to this one more time.
It's a great opportunity as well to take someone new out there and let them experience what hunting is all about. And anytime we can have that opportunity, you might not want to take somebody to go out there, sit in deer season and freeze and, you know, have a good day or a bad day. You know, most of them, you know, aren't. You're not always successful. That's why it's hunting and getting that person involved in the outdoors that time of year, you know, people have free time, maybe have off work or whatever. I think that's a great move.
[00:30:08] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: And the last thing we want to talk about is pretty important and really a success story of a pilot from last year. And I'll let you take it away.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah, no, thanks. Really excited about this one as well. And you know, we could do an entire podcast on this one and probably will. And probably will. The certified hunter program is, in my mind, just an incredible success story. What we were able to do is just to back up a little bit is we heard feedback from landowners time and time again that they wanted to allow hunters onto their property, but just had that hesitancy when somebody out of the blue was knocking on their door saying, hey, can I. Can I hunt in your field? And they have no idea who that individual is. They have no idea about their background.
There was just reluctance to say, come on in. And I think we can all understand that. You know, put yourself in their shoes. Here's somebody that you have no idea anything about them. Do you really want them carrying a firearm and going through your property? So we heard that input from landowners that, let's say deer, because that's the number one thing, right? Like they have deer complaints, deer. Deer problems.
Won't allow hunters on, but just needed to have a higher comfort level before doing so. So we developed this program where we essentially vet individuals before allowing them to be called certified hunters. We do a background check.
We see if they have any game law violations in recent years. We make them take a test as well as a proficiency test with a firearm or bow, whatever they plan on using. And then we can say that these hunters are certified. And what we saw is for landowners, just us taking those steps ahead of time and those individuals reaching out to them saying, I'm a certified hunter. Opened up, literally, doors that were closed previously.
So it allowed us to get hunters into those areas where those. Those landowners in that agricultural community were having deer problems. So we tried it on a pilot basis this past year, wanted to see what. What the reaction would be from landowners. Wanted to see if we could roll out a program like this. And we thought it was incredibly successful. The hunters did, the landowners did it was checking a lot of boxes for us. So after having done that, we took what we learned from year one, put it together as a regulatory package, put it in front of our board in January and then again in April. And now those regulations are going to be in place to take that program statewide. So I think there's just a ton of potential with this. I think it's going to, again, open up a lot of doors where we're going to get hunters into areas where landowners have been saying for years that they have deer issues. Now we can get hunters there. You think about, you know, the alternatives for some of those landowners. I've been in those meetings where they're talking about, we need. We need to bring in sharpshooters, we need to bring in culling operations, we need to reduce deer numbers, but we're not going to let hunters do it. And my message always was, work with the hunters in your community. And now we have a way to identify those hunters. We have a way to certify them, put them through this program, have them make the connection with their landowners. And this way, we're still using hunting as a method of controlling deer population. So really excited about this. I think the. Again, the scene sky's the limit. With what we can do with this. I think we can grow this program, get it into some areas, even beyond the agricultural areas down the road, some of those urban suburban areas where we hear about deer problems. So really excited about the potential, but we needed to get it stood up first. We needed to get the regs in place. And now that we've done so, this program can really take off.
[00:33:36] Speaker B: Right. And not to let cat out of the bag too much on it, but when you look at that, you know, it's modernizing. I mean, we're in different day and age than we were, you know, even 10 years ago or 20 years ago. And when you look at that whole, you know, path forward with certified hunter and hunter access and, you know, even the DMAP program for. For folks that. That, you know, are trying to help manage on their private properties, as you look at the agency over the Next four or five years, you're going to see a lot of big gains in that. In that. In that lane, for sure.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's exactly what you said.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: It's.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: It's modernizing it. Right. It's a different approach.
You grow up, you think about rifle hunting deer, you think about late November, you know, out in the big woods. This is not that.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: Like, this is taking place in the summer months. You're on an agricultural property, you know, shooting does in particular, so that you can reduce those populations at that. At those levels, at those properties. It is, though. It's. Nonetheless, it's still hunting. There's that hunting aspect of it. And I was really encouraged. I was at a meeting a couple months ago and was speaking to a sportsman's group, and one hunter stood up and said, look. He said, I wasn't sure how I felt about this. Nonetheless, my son talked me into trying it, and he turned to the rest and said, you guys need to do this.
The benefit it had on the landowners, they were so excited that I was out there with them. We harvested plenty of deer. We were able to fill our freezer in the summer months.
We need more hunters out there. So I think the word of mouth really helped that program start to grow last year, and I'm sure it's going to continue to do so.
[00:35:07] Speaker B: And I just want to fan the flames on this one. And this is not biological. This is from more of a hunter's aspect. And I can tell you from my friends, especially in the Midwest, that manage deer, when you have too many does in an area and too many deer, your buck hunting suffers from it. And people find that hard to believe. And really, it's a tough. We're at a point right now we're having trouble keeping our herd managed across the state. That doesn't mean that there's too many deer everywhere, but in a lot of areas, like, we need hunters to come help us. And I mean, when you look at allocations rising, you know, it takes so many antlerless tags to get one doe killed. It's a tough job. But we do. We have seen the hunters step up. They're understanding more and getting the job done. And our hats off to them for that. That this past year, for sure.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And to your point, I think there's a. There's a lot in the agricultural community who would probably agree with you about deer populations and the issues that they're facing. And again, here's a way to link up hunters with those landowners. Let hunters be the solution and let hunting be the way in which we manage wildlife.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, Steve, thank you for blocking out a couple 30 minutes or 40 minutes out of your day today. I know it's busy. It's, it's right after the board meeting. Your phone's probably going nuts. It's probably blowing up in your pocket. But thank you for your leadership and just everything that you're doing for the agency and for wildlife. And look forward to the next time we get together. For sure.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thanks, Matt. Enjoy the discussion. And again, thanks to our hunters.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: Absolutely.
